So I recently started a new job, yay! Sort of.
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I'm just drafting for my life, and not keeping up yet.
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Previously I was doing complete field to finish, and was Indoctrinated to a well oiled feature line figures and description key utopia.
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Now I'm literally having nightmares about how to make sense of the no figures no auto line work no description key filtering for layers and symbols using the 'template' which is just blocks and lists of different types of lines and symbols and blocks of text which I understand is the way people used to do this and I appreciate that but to unlearn what I've learned and been using for the past several years has been absolutely tormenting.
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I literally reached out and asked for assistance but we're so busy that no one has time to help me out and I'm not sure how to deal with it. Compounding that I'm working remotely away from the rest of the entire team so I'm sure that has its own nuances that everyone's aware of or not.
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Are the duties of a survey project manager drafting primarily or is that just the circumstances I'm finding myself in because I am remote and b that might just be the way they run their company?
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I'm all ears so anyone can say whatever they like because this is a pace that I don't think I can maintain for more than a few months if I'm lucky to survive that long at all.
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I think there's a possibility I can survive but I'm not sure if this is the environment that's going to help me get to the next level to get my license.
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If they don't have time to give me guidance and train me another ways that they do things and expect me to walk on water then it seems like that's not enough time to actually get me through the mentoring process to get to the next level I don't know.
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comments questions?
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I'm completely mentally blasted and surprised I was actually able to figure out some stuff in AutoCAD civil 3D that I never thought existed.
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I was told to go have a beer and relax over the weekend I'm not sure that's a good idea.
sit down with the surveyors that are producing those files.
you need to get into their heads and learn how they do the field coding.
they'll each have their own style.
you need them on your side.
be their friend and share a beer or two.
just my $0.02
=J=
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PS: might pay to remember you need them more than they need you
@jimcox?ÿ
Not immune to that.?ÿ
The files are created by the field crews, not the surveyors.?ÿ Thats part of the trouble. random codes, bad shots, and to my short observations, seems like they are paid by the job like a carpet installer: warp speed and not a lick of time to actually fill in the gaps.?ÿ Not used to that, as i was just in the field 3 weeks ago,?ÿ collecting 4000 points for my last topo for a dangerous traffic nightmare intersection re engineering project, and was the person doing the collection so i knew what was or wasn't there, and drafting and discussing with the engineers on what else they need or want.?ÿ
I don't want to draft 100% of the time, is that what getting a license means? If so im done, screw that.
It sounds like you need to find a different job. If the company culture and operating environment is shot full of dry rot there??s not much you can do.
You'll never what you can do, until you put in your all best effort.?ÿ I'd say give it your 115% and see just what the hell happens.
You got this, you just don't see it yet.
It's always easier to train a young dog than break an old dog of old habits.?ÿ The field crews should be taking direction from the end user.?ÿ As PM that's you.
Good luck newbie!
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Good luck newbie!
In Land surveying, absolutely!?ÿ I'll be working on the communication as I'm the odd ball, being remote to start.?ÿ My goal is to at the very least do the best I can do, and if it doesn't make their(our as Im on the team now albeit newbie) I can't feel bad about giving my best.
thanks for the feedback.
One of my favorite movies(animation i suppose) and a great local band from ROCKford!?ÿ Buddy i worked with grew up there and his kids played with Robin Zander's too apparently. Small world..and awesome because of that.
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Thanks for the input, "?ÿ AYE!!!!!! IM GIVIN HER ALL SHE"S GOT CAPTAIN!!!!!
I feel your pain. No joke. Once you have seen how an even halfway developed and administered F2f system works it has got to be super frustrating to operate without one. But the fact is that there are probably still more outfits using the old unorganized cowboy system than use F2f.?ÿ
It could be an opportunity for you. Set up a template and F2f system of your own.?ÿ If there is any semblance of a CAD Standard in use try to incorporate it. If not, make one up. When field data comes in, spend time cleaning up the coding, then import and map.?ÿ Even with the code editing, you will be done sooner and your drawings will be much higher quality. It will be noticed. Sure, it means investing personal time. So what. It will pay back many times over. And you will be far more satisfied in your work.
Yes, there is a real danger in this business of getting pigeonholed into doing nothing but drafting. There is always a shortage of people who are both willing and able to perform this task. One of the beauties of F2f is that less proficient people can be used to?ÿ produce quality product.?ÿ?ÿ
You have to work at getting involved in other phases of the work. And, again, that may mean making investments in personal time acquire and prove your value.?ÿ In this case it is possible that they just have a big backlog of drafting work to do and once you plow through it there may be other opportunities. Or maybe you have signed up with a plat mill. If so, there are plenty of other fish in the sea.
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i watched the scene with Blake and the steak knives to figure out if I'm being brought in to help redirect the ship, or just cannon fodder.?ÿ i can do anything, but being expected to walk on water with no exposure was a bit more than I was ready for after my recent field to finish slower paced position. Esp after the senior engineers were really wishing I wasn't departing.?ÿ I could always go back.
Sounds like exactly about my mentor and I were talking about yesterday for about an hour.
The goal is to sell the time saved and not just that but I've got a free copy of what I was working with and then incorporating that like you're saying I've been spending personal time after work in between studying to manufacture and get to a point where I can walk in and do the sell presentation like here's how I can make it work and they'll either love it or they'll hate it or not know what to do.
I don't think it's a plat Mill I did some good research and took some time it wasn't just a simple across the table deal it took months to develop so hopefully it pans out but again I'm going to do my level best and do the best I possibly can and at the very least I'm learning to master the drafting I never had to suffer through and then on top of it can help incorporate a real solid field to finish operation which is what the high tech toys that everyone's buying now actually needs to produce profitable business models.
Thanks again for all your input all these comments are really helping me understand that it's good to take time to make decisions and unfortunate enough to have enough time patience and even a little bit of money to avoid deeper pitfalls.
Man this site rocks!?ÿ
and get to a point where I can walk in and do the sell presentation like here's how I can make it work and they'll either love it or they'll hate it or not know what to do.
I'd just do it without trying to sell it. Once it's working it will sell itself. In the mean time let them think that it's magic.
Wilco.
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I'll keep you posted.
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It was how 5 of us could handle the survey work of a PW dept for 100k plus sized city.?ÿ Without it, it was impossible.
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This is giving me PTSD. ?ÿIt seems that I knew within the first two weeks when the new job was not a good fit. ?ÿBut I and (they) we would continue to suffer doing our best for 3-6 months longer before finally, sweet relief, I found another gig or got fired.
This is only my experience. ?ÿI hope it does help to color your situation. ?ÿThis is a buyers market for jobs. ?ÿThere is probably a better fit for you out there somewhere.
@jitterboogie sounds more like a collective of prostitutes than a professional surveying firm.
There is always something to be learned, but there are names you don't want on your resume. It is also impossible to become a professional in a commodity business model.
My advice is run. There are too many good options to live like that.
@thebionicman yeah, great point. ?ÿThose mistakes I made never made it on to my resume or CV.
Lot of really good advice you??ve gotten here, all of it. Not much to add but I second everything Mark said regarding F2F. It sounds like there isn??t a great deal of consistency in the data that your working with. It??s been my experience that opportunity often comes in disguise and it??s up to you to see past all the smoke and mirrors and identify exactly where the problems lie, define them and work out practical solutions. One of two things will happen when you offer up those solutions. Either you??ll get push back, ??that??s the way we??ve always done it?? and it??s an uphill battle , in which case count your blessings and move on or you??ll get the support you need to make it work and you??ll come out a hero. Lot of it depends on how well you make allies and not alienate people. I like to tell people my work supports, ??I??m just here to make all of you look good. Help me out a little.?? If you can??t get that cooperation, run like hell.
@jimcox?ÿ
Not immune to that.?ÿ
The files are created by the field crews, not the surveyors.?ÿ
Sorry, should have been more precise.
To me they ARE the surveyors,
Not the paper-pushing shiney-bum clock-watching office dwellers and planners
As an office puke in a 40 man shop one thing always irked me.?ÿ Each "Project Surveyor" ran a job from preparing estimates, research & office survey calcs, County interactions, preparing maps & plats, and directing the crew,?ÿ which involved preparing a survey request ("search for this monuments, et.al." ) which included estimated hours.?ÿ I'd write in 8 hours and alas the next morning the office supervisor would drop by and say "make that 4 days" ???ý.?ÿ Turns out my project was perkin' right along but dufus's project two cubicles down was in dire straits.?ÿ He told me to charge 4 days to my project?ÿ and three of those days the crew would surreptitiously (billing wise) catch up on dufus's project.?ÿ Or I'd finish a plat under budget/early and the boss would tell me to hold on filing it and charge the next week?ÿ to my project but finish/clean up dufus's plat/topo map or it'd look like his project was in the red.
Mm, 'kay??ÿ I pointed out doing so makes my projects look worse and dufus's projects pencil out.?ÿ That's not good business practice;?ÿ you can't monitor your costs and pinpoint profit/loss centers if you're cooking your own books. He said the accounting may be off but pointed to his temple and said he knows where all the skeletons are.?ÿ Also kinda unfair for clients.?ÿ But he told me the pay's the same so ignore the man behind the curtain ????.
I also said I'm providing crews with the updated coordinate .dat files for their equipment as the fieldwork progresses, a uStn sketch of the probable situation, scans of salient record maps, etc., while dufus provided some Xeroxed plats with red magic marker circles around sought monuments,?ÿ a few control stations and the poor party chief had to spend an hour or more in the truck calc'ing things out, or, if he was a company man working at night.?ÿ I said we gotta get the project managers up to speed concerning new fangled 'puter stuff and he magnanimously offered me one hour/week of chargeable time to mentor my associates.?ÿ It went OK in general but dufus one on one was a handful; he was twenty years my senior; he essentially told me to f*ck off because he was too busy to deal with a puke like me.?ÿ Fair enough.
The last straw was my supervisor retired and dufus became my supervisor!?ÿ Dark clouds looming so I moved on to another outfit soon thereafter.?ÿ A year later I learned dufus was the son-in-law of the owner!?ÿ Sniff out nepotism early and if they're not competent consider moving on ASAP or else you'll just be a sharecropper.
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Ditto.
I have done work that's only a memory or two and I learned from the experiences and never mentioned anything about them.Ever.
