Firemen watch as house burns

What a despicable act. These are not firefighters, but pure cowards. The idea that an unpaid $75 fee keeps you from enjoying fire protection is outrageous. Unless this department gets all of its revenue from this fee, I believe they should go to jail. You can bet a majority of their revenues come from some sort of taxing event in which all participate.

If it were possible to just pay the fee in the unlikely event that you become a fire victim then no one would pay.

But like you, I have mixed feelings about the policy.

Stephen

From what I have read, the homes in the outskirts of town in lieu of paying taxes pay the $75 annual fee to receive fire protection from the incorporated city. I personally have no problem with this. Fire protection is a service. It is not guaranteed (unless provided for by the municipality by taxes -- different story). Where I live, the fire departments are all self-sustaining volunteers. They have a multitude of fund raisers in order to keep afloat. Would the insurance company be quick to cover your loss if you decline to pay their annual fee? That's what I thought.

Also, it was stated in the article that if it were a rescue mission, all that goes out the window and they rescue whether they pay or not. This is a trailer. It was probably a total loss before the fire dept. got there anyhow. They just saved water and a couple bucks on the clean up.

The individuals making up that fire crew are the ones at risk should they get involved in the fire. Any insurance and other support they receive from their employer (fire dept.) would not cover them in this situation.

The fools in this case are the owners of the property who chose to try to get by without fire coverage.

Three are a few firemen on here (for Gene)

So here is what some of you DON'T know evidently. Fire protection, in rural areas, as serviced by a municipality, requires either a mutual aid contract or other written agreement due to government exerting control over the same territory (see Chapter 242 of the local government code to see how this extends to surveying). It's no different than cops not going outside their city limits. The City of Jacksonville, totally quit allowing their firemen to fight fires outside their city, unless they were called in for assistance by another department, and as such, they receive no county money. The city's explanation was that they were needed to keep their citizens safe. While it's difficult to imagine a fire department watching a house burn feet outside their city limits, it's not something THE FIREMEN have control over Gene. They can't just go fight fire whenever they want to.

While it's okay to be angry about this, your anger is misplaced. The city council of that town and or the county government is where your anger should be directed. They are the key holders to any and all things that regulate where municipalities can and do go from fire protection to police protection to water and sewer services.

Don't you dare think for a minute that those men and women who were standing by liked the fact that they COULDN'T go fight the fire. Cut the folks who run in burning buildings while everyone else runs out a little slack, and engage your brain and think it through. Even IF they said to hell with it, and walked over there, they have NO RIGHT to commandeer or confiscate public equipment (read fire truck, city water, gear, etc.) to fight that fire.

This is a sad set of events that the city council for that town WILL take a helluva lot of heat for (and rightly so), but it isn't the FIREFIGHTERS fault!

Assign the blame to who it belongs

The deadbeat homeowner who didn't pay their fee!!!!!!

Don't pay for electric -- it gets turned off
Don't pay for phone -- it gets turned off
Don't pay for water -- it gets turned off
Don't pay for insurance -- it gets cancelled
Don't pay property taxes -- the government takes your property

It is all about personal responsibility. These people, I am sure, are adults. They know the consequences of their actions. They didn't pay their bill and voila. Karma is a bitch.

Assign the blame to who it belongs

I'm not so sure that I agree with you Neil. To my way of thinking, the county should be responsible for some part of this and for providing fire protection. The city boys couldn't due to the restrictions, but since this is the SECOND time in this city's history of this happening, I'm sure Volunteer Fire Departments will spring up. That is how our county is defended. The county should have fire protection in place. That is government's responsibility (one of their very few in my opinion).

It's very sad.

In the local county where I do most of my work, those who live in the city are provided with fire protection paid for through taxes. The County contracts with a for profit company (Rural-Metro) for ambulance service and subscription based fire protection. Rural-Metro responds to all fires regardless of subscription status. Those who have paid their subscription face no additional fees, those who have not will receive a big bill based on time, equipment and personnel used to fight the fire. Those receiving big bills are just as unhappy and indignant as those in the OP whose house was allowed to burn. Local man gets big bill after fire

There's no free lunch.....just a question of how you will be billed (taxes, subscription, bill for services rendered, or repairs to your house out of pocket).

Assign the blame to who it belongs

> I'm not so sure that I agree with you Neil. To my way of thinking, the county should be responsible for some part of this and for providing fire protection. The city boys couldn't due to the restrictions, but since this is the SECOND time in this city's history of this happening, I'm sure Volunteer Fire Departments will spring up. That is how our county is defended. The county should have fire protection in place. That is government's responsibility (one of their very few in my opinion).
>
> It's very sad.

Where I live, there are a few "paid" FD's but the majority are VFD's. Also, the majority of the VFD's are a joke. Half the guys with their blue lights think that their blue light gives them super powers and the ability to drive 70 mph on curvy back country roads. Also, a lot of the VFD's only have a few guys certified to acutally put a fire out. The other 20 or so that show up direct traffic (or back it up for miles) or simply just stand around. A lot of small fires are put out by the time the VFD gets there yet they show up, break every window in the house and douse everything in water. There are also a few (hopefully few) firemen around here that get their jollies by setting fires so that they can go to the station and jump in a truck to come and put it out. I am sure that there are VFD's like this everywhere. I would also like to think that they are in the minority and that most of them are fine upstanding citizens who are heros volunteering their time to protect human lives and property.

Deja Vu..Pretty freakin wierd

[msg=23934]Old Thread[/msg]
This same county in TN did this last year.
maybe they do it to remind folks about paying their taxes or whatever.

or to enjoy a Christmas season Bon Fire

They said on the local news in Memphis that one of the requirements was that the house had to be insured. The home was paid for, and the owner could not afford the insurance, or the yearly fire fee. That is what the news said, no personal knowledge.

My guess was it was an older couple on a fixed income, or a family that was unemployed. That is a very rural area, and not a lot of jobs around.

My area is like the area that Stephen lives in, if you don't pay the yearly fee, you pay the bill for putting out the fire. They won't just let it burn and watch it.

I have a lot of friends that are volunteer fire fighters. My hats off to them. I just received my bill for my yearly fire fee. I am about to write a check for it now.

So what connection is there between insurance and fire protection? Not obvious to me.

Neil

Obviously, what you've seen isn't what I've witnessed. I am a volunteer fireman, so is Alan Cook, and so was J. D. Billings. None of us get paid, and all have fought fires. My dad is also a volunteer along with a host of what I'm sure are other surveyors. Just because you're a volunteer doesn't mean that you're an idiot. In fact, we have drill twice a month going over what may have gone on at a previous call or other methods for fire fighting. We fought two fires this summer in excess of 2000 acres and one was 9000 acres. I've cut cars to pieces to extract people, entered houses on fire, had floors collapse from under me, and given CPR to drowning victims and other people. I've stood and cried with grown men over the loss of life. ALL of whom were volunteers, but we do it again and again, because we like to help, not because we like to drive fast.

I really feel bad that you don't have a VFD in your area you're proud of. Ours is a hybrid, in that we have three paid men, and 30 volunteers. My typical duties are to drive the rescue truck to the scene (where needed and I'm REALLY close to the fire station) and either first or second on the RIT line (rapid insertion team). I didn't know anything about bunker gear, thermal dynamics, PASS devices, or anything other than a BRT (big red truck) and lights and sirens before I started. Now I feel comfortable fighting most fires and anything else. It all comes down to training and leadership, which I'm pleased to say as a city councilman for my town, is damn good.

My recommendation, you should go and join a local VFD and see what it's all about. There are lots of jobs for Type A and Type B personalities on it. Then you will truly see how well orchestrated disasters can be (or not well orchestrated if you have poor training and leadership) and then you can "walk the mile" as they say.

I'm not judging you, but I think you're judging groups and situations from the outside in, and there's always "the rest of the story" that most folks don't know.

I think the $75 fee is for fire insurance.

> So what connection is there between insurance and fire protection? Not obvious to me.

Bill, many small departments make a claim on the homeowners insurance or car insurance for wrecks for money and equipment. More than not do this. If the jaws break on a wreck, that's $10k for a new set, at least.

Tye are expensive toys.

Neil

>
> I'm not judging you, but I think you're judging groups and situations from the outside in, and there's always "the rest of the story" that most folks don't know.

I agree with you 100%. I don't know all the ins and outs of the workings of the VFD's. I am not trying to badmouth all VFD's by comparing them to my local VFD's. Also, I am sure that my local VFD's do way more good than the "bad" stories that I have heard about and have knowledge of. I guess it is the case of a few bad apples spoiling the whole bunch. I apoligize if I had offended you in any way and I assure you that it was not my intent. As for myself volunteering at a VFD, I really don't see that happening as it is just not something that I would have a passion for. Some people do, some people don't. If my house (or neighbor's house) ever burns, I just pray that I get a group of firemen like you to come and put it out rather than the ones that I have described (which unfortunately I know personally). OK, now I will close my mouth and reinsert my foot.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Neil

No offense taken. We're good. 🙂