Survey Business Owners,
I work for a large public agency where I do a very specific type of surveying. I have a chance to do some weekend work for a licensed individual. I am leaning toward doing it as I would like some more varied work. I realize that moonlighting is frowned upon, however I would be using his equipment (or rental) and doing this under his mentoring.
Mainly I am doing this because I would like to own my own business some day, and I feel that I need a more varied surveying experience.
Thoughts? Advice?
That is between you and your employer. If it is against their rules then I would abstain, varied experience is great and all but so is a full time job.
I see no problem with it, as long as there is no conflict of interest between the public agency you work for and the private surveying you're doing.
Do It As A W-2 Employee Only
You do not want to deal with anything at this time in running a business or being self employed. That is moonlighting, W-2 work is a second job.
Keep a good record of the work you do, especially boundary line experience.
If you work every Saturday for a year you would get 10 weeks experience. Make it your goal to get 2 months (8 weeks) experience per year. Had you done it in 2012, you can honestly account for 2 months boundary line experience and 10 months of other surveying. The boards do not accept that you can get more than 12 months experience in a year, no matter how many hours you work. There are states in the US where if it isn't boundary line experience it does not count.
It took me more than 5 years to fill out 15 months of boundary line field experience to meet PA's 5 year requirement for Surveying under the education category I applied under. The 5 years boundary experience was a minimum of 25% office or field. I had more than 5 years office when I started that last lap. Since I was a self employed and/or part time PE, I could take 2-3 days whenever boundary work came up. Sometimes it was a full week when a farm survey was involved, other times little work. In those 5 plus years that surveyor only asked me to help out 3 days on hub pounding. I still help him out partime (2 days this past week and he is down to zero full time employees).
As a W-2 employee there can be no question that you were under the LS's responsible charge.
Don't ever work on a survey in the neighborhood of your employment and do not take a work day off to survey. If you work near the courthouse you might be able to pick up maps during lunch, but research is best done on line.
Paul in PA
Thoughts:
As long as the licensed individual is:
actually in responsible charge of the work
actually employing you (workman's comp insurance, unemployment insurance, proper tax forms, etc...)
actually furthering your knowledge as opposed to using you as a grunt weekend helper
actually providing the necessary equipment for you to work with (his or his rental)
and is not:
secretively 'competing' with his own employer
a shady character
I would not see a problem with doing so. My opinion is that what you do on your time is your business - keeping in mind that your side venture should not impact your performance on your full time job (i.e. no dragging ass on Monday because you are worn out from your weekend work, no skipping out early Friday because you want to get started on the weekend work, no holding off on reporting an injury on Saturday until you get to an employer that actually carries workman's comp insurance to make a claim).
If it is boundary experience you are looking to gain, I would question exactly how much experience you will gain on weekends only. A large portion of boundary work is the research (courthouse hours) and analysis (not something I have ever heard of a licensee asking for weekend help for).
Plus what party chef said!
Hard to say, given the information provided. But, if you're talking of running a crew for the licensed surveyor on the weekends, I'd probably say it's not worth it. IF you are going to be working WITH the land surveyor in the field, I would consider it.
But again, only if it didn't jeopardize your current employment. Just running a part time crew isn't really going to give you any real business experience.
Survey Exp. Required For License, Business Exp. Is Extra
To paraphrase "The Gambler".
Paul in PA
Survey Exp. Required For License, Business Exp. Is Extra
If you're not doing anything wrong.
Go for it, and don't think twice!
You don't want to wind up like some pathetic licensed Topo Monkey. Get as much experience as you can in all facets of Surveying and expose yourself to as much equipment and techniques as you can. While you're at it, hit the books. You have everything to gain and nothing to lose.
You don't want to have to claim you've been there, done it when you really haven't. You'll wind up like a "Licensed Topo Monkey" I know.
Ralph
> ......no dragging ass on Monday ...... no skipping out early Friday ,
Arent these a requirement for big public agancy and government employees? :-O
As long as YOU are not drumming up business for the Private Practice LS you're moonlighting for or used as a marketing tool by him to somehow gain a perceived edge over the competitor.
Keep a Day-Timer and document your time and what you did. The LS will hopefully be a Reference for you when you apply to sit for your professional exam.
Yes, do it.
Be careful, though, and follow the law.
Our profession has a tendency to pigeon hole people and this is a great way to get varied experience.
I don't see a problem with it unless you're moonlighting in my area 😉
Thank you everybody that answered!
I will keep these things in mind as I go forward.
I would encourage you to have "Open Discussions" with the guy stamping your plat. He needs to know everything, so his stamp will be ethical.
N
Go for it! If will never hurt to have more experience in the long run. Why do they care if you moonlight? As long as there are no conflicts of interest with the work you are doing and you are not using company resources I don't see why they should care what you do to make ends meet on the weekend.
Obviously you don't want to risk your job, so I would read through your employee manual and see what the specific company policy is regarding the work you intend to do on the side.
Maybe I'm reading this differently than most others, but it sounds to me as if you would be doing this work without direct supervision by the LS, so I'm a little fuzzy on just what the arrangement would be.
Are you being approached by would-be clients to do side work on the weekends and the LS will be just reviewing the final results and maybe lending you some equipment?
Will the work be for the LS's clients, with him putting together the field file, giving you specific instructions and then reviewing the fieldwork you bring back?
Will you be working directly with the LS in the field?
Is the arrangement one with you as employee or you as independent contractor to the LS?
Are you expected to provide your own equipment beyond personal equipment (vest, belt, pouches, etc.), or will the LS provide all other equipment (instruments, metal detector, hammers, shovels, etc.)?
Where the clients come from and the actual work arrangement makes all the difference to the answer. Since the reason you state for doing this work is to gain experience different from that you're getting at your full-time job, you are not qualified to work independently of the LS on projects that you lack the requisite experience for.
If the work is coming through you - you bring the clients, do all the work, and the LS only reviews the final results, then you are considering an illegal work model. What the LS would be doing is called rubber stamping - give a cursory look over of the final map, apply his signature and seal for a fee that you pay him. In such an arrangement, you would be practicing without a license and the LS would be aiding and abetting your illegal practice. The practice of surveying is the accumulation of data through research and field work and the evaluation and use of that data to form opinions, which are shown on maps, explained in reports, or physically manifested by points set in the field. The signing and sealing is merely an attestation that the surveying practiced in the performance of a project was done properly (and legally).
Assuming that you will be working as an employee of the LS on projects for his clients, and that he will be providing adequate supervision, then there is nothing wrong with you working for him as long as your secondary employment does not adversely affect your performance in your primary employment, and as long as you don't work on projects that present a potential conflict of interest between your employers. If your primary employment is with the County, for example, and your secondary employer sends you to work on a project involving the boundary of County property, that is a potential conflict of interest. If your secondary employer has a staking contract with the County (making your employment with him a potential conflict), he sends you to set stakes on that job, has you review field notes for that job, do calcs for it, do any work connected with it, that is a real conflict of interest.
Most anti-moonlighting policies have to do with avoiding conflicts. In the private sector, companies often compete for the same work, so doing any work for a competitor is a conflict. In some cases, it may be a conflict each employer is willing to live with, but in most cases it's a firing offense.
With a public sector employer, there is not the market based conflict. But there may be conflicts of work performed by the secondary employer for the public agency or for the government of which it is a part, or of performing work that could come under the review of the agency. whether the primary employer is public or private sector, there are potential conflicts of scheduling or of being so tired from working for the secondary employer that your performance suffers for your primary employer. But those are a matter of personal management of one's time and energy.
A public agency employer does not own you, and to my knowledge cannot legally prevent you from taking on a second job as long as it presents no conflicts and as long as it does not affect your performance.
So as long as the employment arrangement with the secondary employer is proper, nothing is stopping you. If you are doing it for the experience, make sure that you will be getting adequate guidance from the LS. If the LS is just looking for a warm body to run the equipment and direct a chainman and is not going to provide much in the way of specific guidance, then be honest with yourself and admit that the 2nd job is more about the extra income rather than justifying it as valuable varied experience. Experience without guidance has little value as a learning opportunity, unless it's about learning what kind of employment you don't want in the long term.
Just be honest with your main employer.
I think anyone/everyone, who works for only one employee too long is doing themselves and the public a disservice. If your employer is absolutely top-notch, never makes mistakes and does absolutely E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G by the books and uses the best methods, then maybe not.
But it would serve you well to see the best and even(at times), the worse that the field has to offer(in way of practitioners).
Especially if you expect to get your license to actually practice.
I note you are an lsit.
If you don't accept compensation is it still considered moon lighting?
