> The surveyor is the villian while the fence builder is the hero even though the fence guy might be overcharging.
I have come to accept that there are just some things in life that you can't change, at least not without some sort of PSA announcements on a unified front for about the next 50 years.
Fortunately when I had the nicest fence in my subdivision installed, I was the one locating the lines 🙂
SHG
That reminds me of a follow-up conversation a few weeks ago with a client wanting his lot corners and lotlines re-traced, who was told by our office staff that it would be between $xxx-$yyy depending on what monumentation we were able to recover. The property is a lot on a lake with traditionally poor 50-60 year old original surveys and little monumentation, which is what we actually discovered. So the follow-up conversation after our initial recon work went something like:
Me: "Sir, our field crew was able to find your front lot corners, but your rear corners appear to fall a few feet past your seawall in the lake. It appears to be the same for your neighbors' lots. Due to lack of monumentation and a crytpic plat with no bearings or angles on the lotlines, for us to re-establish the location of your lotlines with a great deal of certainty, we are probably going to have to re-survey the entire subdivision, which will take a lot more time (ergo more $)."
Client:"So why is my bill already over $xxx if I only have half of my lot corners recovered?"
Me:"Because it takes at least the same amount of time to look for the corners initially, whether we find them or not, plus additional time to search outside of your property if we don't find them."
Client:"So what you're saying is, I'm paying more and getting less."
:excruciating:
What I should have told the client, and didn't think of until later, is that when you buy a property on that lake, you are buying something of a lesser value because it costs more to retrace lots in that area. Not many home buyers think of that until it's time to have a survey done, whether it's due to a property line dispute or a sale. Of course that wouldn't have placated him a whole lot, since the bottom line of that conversation was about money and his desire to not spend it on a surveyor.
this old timer had gads of land
we always did the survey where another firm did his engineering
because we had this information and we had the history, i threw him a bone
his daughter was a classmate of mine
his granddaughter and my daughter are BFFs now
it makes for another story about George...
People only hear ...
And they will often insist that "you said it would be about ---[low end of range]" They tune out the whole idea of a range.That's why I always put it in writing beforehand. Then they can say whatever they want about what I "said." But it feels much better if it's in writing and their signature is at the bottom of the sheet.
Who was it that said:
"If they're not complaining, you're not charging enough" ?
I had a similar situation recently. I did a lot survey in an expensive neighborhood and charged the client $500. The client and his RE agent both asked me why it cost so much. The RE agent said he had never paid over $250 for a similar survey. I took the time to explain that I did a thorough amount of research and spent the necessary time to check all the adjoiners' corners and read the deeds - basically what's necessary for a proper survey. I also told them that I appreciated the input and I did care about whether or not my rates were in line with other surveyors (I never said I would change my rate). In the end, they both said they would be calling me for their future surveys. A little patience can make a lot of difference.
Dan did.
:good: :good: :good:
I wont work for friends. Happy to do a favor, but will not enter into a contract. Too high of a chance of ruining the relationship.
-V
Sad, but true. You should probably add relatives to that list.
On many occasions I am able to point out that the reason their bill is so high is because they attempted to get by cheaply several years earlier and are now paying for that short cut. A prime example is when a handydandy description is written for a tract in one corner of an aliquot part of a section without a survey. Nice numbers. Nice directions given (parallel to the south section line). But, that tract can not be located properly without first establishing the critical sides of the aliquot part, which frequently requires a full section breakdown. Now that they have called you, they are wanting to layout a second piece for which there is no simple handydandy description and YOU MUST first survey the piece they deeded away years ago.
> Just finished a large boundary for a guy I have known for years and hunt with every fall. I gave him a estimate for the job ($8,000-$10,000). I knew it was a lot of work and because he's a good friend I cut him a deal.
>
> I finished the job and called him with the actual bill of $8,900. I told him thats about what I thought it would be after being a couple weeks into the job. So he was well aware of what the price was going to be and seemed that it was fair.
>
> Get a call from him on friday morning "the wife wants to know why the bill is so high?","did you do anything extra?". I just about lost it, and had to explain that if it wasn't for him being a good friend it would have been more like $12,000.
>
> I guess I should have known better!!!
Not to ask the wrong question; but, what did your contract stipulate for the price?
A written contract that spells out all these sorts of details can be your best friend.
Also, respectfully, those who suggest you discuss your costs to do the work or your time necessary to complete the work are wrong. The client doesn't care about your costs or your time. They care about their value. Sounds like the client (and wife) are not convinced you provided sufficient value. This is something you should have known and addressed before you took the job.
Larry P
I wouldn't have explained a thing to him.
I would have said "Put your wife on the line. I'll take care of it".
"Well she's not here right now. What should I tell her?".
"Tell her to call me. You already know about the price."
Thankfully I found out along time ago before going out on my own that if you tell the client "if everything goes right it'll only cost $$$ but if I have to go all over hell's half acre to find additional monuments it'll be $$$". The client tunes out everything after "if everything goes right it'll only be $$$" and half the time forgets about the "if everything goes right". I'll still say things like that but the phone call always gets followed up by a contract. Something about those numbers in front of them gets their attention and if they've got a problem with them we can discuss them before things get too out of hand. You'll still get a few people who'll sign the contract thinking they can still negotiate after the fact.
The fence comment struck me as funny because when I was working for someone else, an existing client called up asking us to recover their pins we'd set 10yrs prior. This was a site around 200 ac. I recall that was mostly wooded over and had a lot of jogs. Gave them a price that'd cover a days crew time and they choked. Didn't have anyone recover the pins, went ahead with $75,000 worth of chain link and then found out it was all fubar'd. They'd cut down numerous oaks and wildcherrys that were across the line and got sued over it. The facilities foreman told me all told it cost them $150,000 to redo the fence and pay off the adjoiner. I thought the fence contractor would eat a little of that, but their contract called for the route to be marked and the site manager did it himself by memory. $1,500 bucks sounds cheap for surveying. The site manager who'd choked on the price didn't get fired but was demoted and transfered.
One of the advantages of having no friends........
Seriously, one of the best folks I ever worked for as far as getting paid at delivery would only give a not to exceed price and always invoiced below it. He would also label any discounts and put them on an invoice, including pro bono work.
