How about the issue of professional liability insurance? Does this other guy carry decent insurance? Do they know if he even has a policy? There's something an attorney will understand.
I agree with Steve
>... the show-and-tell idea with the hand-drawn plat would not be something I would do...
That will not add anything to you getting back into the stream of things. You have to realize that these clients are not dummies and they know what your work product looks like and what others procucts look like.
Just be honest and be yourself and leave all the 'sell me' items at home.
I agree with Steve
Going for a beer? I agree with the others, don't worry about bringing plans, maps & stuff. Just be humble and do your thing. I would say that most businesses are as interested in keeping good providers of services (vendors) as they are interested in keeping good clients.
Have a beer, find out what the story is. And if they are not interested in your services, just move on, other clients will.
By the way, who's picking up the tab?
:beer:
I would recommend not bringing a bad example. Bring them one of the plats you are proud of, and highlight some of the things you do on your plats. The first time they ever get a poor plat from the other guy, I would bet they would think of you. Show them that your numbers are legible, that your plats are clean and crisp, that you show how you show all the evidence clearly on the plat, etc.
Don't let them pay for the beers.
Those are my immediate thoughts on this.
Good luck.
edit/addendum......if you do bring a plat you are especially proud of, have another surveyor/friend look it over for errors. If there is a mistake, their eyes will glom right on it.
> The first time they ever get a poor plat from the other guy, I would bet they would think of you. Show them that your numbers are legible, that your plats are clean and crisp, that you show how you show all the evidence clearly on the plat, etc...
Then they would think about.. Is the poor plat survey signed by a reponsible party if things go south? Is the poor plat survey sufficient enough to close the deal? Is the poor plat survey bottom line cost better than a good looking map cost?
Then they would go to lunch.
I agree with Steve
> By the way, who's picking up the tab?
>
> :beer:
Clients never pay
I find it interesting that everyone here, myself included is against going negative against another surveyor, even if he really deserves it. I'm sure, JB, you would agree if you heard yourself. If you stress the positives about yourself and your services, your clients will figure the rest out by themselves. Certainly I've badmouthed others myself, but I know it's not productive.
That's kind of along the lines I was thinking, Paul. I don't want to minimize JB's product and his pride in it, but I'm not sure what the product is that the attorneys are ordering. If it's not important to them what it looks like, but just a box to be checked off on a real estate closing, the selling point for it would be quick turnaround and low fee rather than scenic beauty of the product. If it involves expert opinion and preparation of exhibits for litigation, etc. quality is a lot more important to them.
I agree, and that's why I'm not even going to mention his name. I am going to bring a hand-drawn plat, with all identifying features redacted to drive the point home.
No names.
I will compete on the basis of my product.
Thanks Guys,
JB
PS, I am going to happily pay the tab!
I find it interesting that everyone here, myself included is against going negative against another surveyor, even if he really deserves it. I'm sure, JB, you would agree if you heard yourself. If you stress the positives about yourself and your services, your clients will figure the rest out by themselves. Certainly I've badmouthed others myself, but I know it's not productive.
I'm with Larry, JB. I've had to go behind a competitor this week and resurvey work he had already done because he kept badmouthing our firm. In the end it worked out. The client had us out to verify the new division lines the other surveyor had done and address an errant corner. I had to bite my tongue during the initial meeting with the client since he just kept rehashing what the other surveyor had said about us. Now the client wishes he had paid the extra $100 for us to do the job.
The paralegals run the show . Bring her donuts or biscuits once a week and you will get the work . Attorneys dont want the hassle of ordering surveys.
gonna suggest two things:
talk with the other surveyor. let him know these were your bread and butter. ask if he really wants/needs the work.
grab some bbq with BOTH the other surveyor and the attorneys / paralegal and just plain ask, how can we all team up to fill the freezer?
The intention was to talk to the surveyor who you have a good relationship with, not the client.
I think Tommy was trying to imagine the conversation if the other surveyor decided to be a nice guy and back off. How does he go to the client and say he doesn't want as much of their work, give it to JB.
NOT TIME TO TAKE A PLAN..As we would say in OZ
it is "PUB TALK" time.
Definitely NOT THE TIME or PLACE to produce documents. I say that because unless you had a mutual job/client when you previously socialized I bet you did not discuss drawings, unless you specifically met to deliver a drawing with the beer. Sure you would have talked general shop.
Definitely NOT TIME to talk in front of paralegal about their friend /relative surveyor contact's work or plans.
You need to re establish communication over a beer with lawyers. You could end up embarrassing yourself just because the door has opened a tad. You want the beer talk to progress in general . It is only the time to gauge their sincerity through small talk banter and potential of future work.
Then if they do give you a job and you deliver perhaps then you could make a passing remark "I do not know if you notice any difference in the plan presentation." That way they can say "what in your work or with the other surveyor"?
As I said before if they are aware of what is going on they will regard you showing a drawing over the beer as "sour grapes". As lawyers they require a document for a particular function. If the provider certifies their work then there is nothing you can do. If there is a short coming in the future then it will emerge and they will take necessary action with the provider.
The last thing you want is to have a fall out now , so if / when the proverbial hits the fan the lawyers have a door still ajar that they can come crawling back. Blow it now and your future will be bleak , as you must remember that the firm has effectively a mole who will relay your discourse directly back to her surveying contact if at the meeting. Or at worst a garbled edition if her lawyer bosses chat with the paralegal after your beer.
Be grateful that the door is open for a beer and take the occasion for just that.
Good luck!
RADU
on second thought....
Just remember "with the wine comes the truth"....I'd have the bartender filling my glass with O'Douls or the sorts and let the attorneys get tanked.:-|
NOT TIME TO TAKE A PLAN..As we would say in OZ
I agree with Richard, I wouldn't bring any maps or other stuff which will probably just bore them anyway.
This is a social visit; you have to talk business without talking business. A sales pitch will just turn them off.
You have to somehow feel them out carefully; I have no idea how to do it because I never was any good at this sort of thing but I know from personal experience that trying to talk shop over beers in the bar especially with accompanying show and tell won't accomplish what you want.
That's still ridiculous. Clients are not like baseball cards that you trade. The client is going to hire who they want, regardless of what the surveyor thinks about it.
Also, some of us have too much pride to go begging other surveyors to stop working for our clients.
> I'm with Larry, JB. I've had to go behind a competitor this week and resurvey work he had already done because he kept badmouthing our firm. In the end it worked out. The client had us out to verify the new division lines the other surveyor had done and address an errant corner. I had to bite my tongue during the initial meeting with the client since he just kept rehashing what the other surveyor had said about us. Now the client wishes he had paid the extra $100 for us to do the job.
That would require a phone call and a private a$$ chewing. You NEVER bad mouth another surveyor in public.
That wouldn't help with this guy. He was once part owner of the firm I'm at now, before we were bought out by a larger firm. In my rodman/instrumentman days he was my party chief for several years so I know him real well. He's got some personal issues and demons he needs to take care of before he'll ever change.
