If you review someones survey, as a service you provide to a municipality, and your remarks include a statement that says the survey is inaccurate, but no explanation of why you make this statement; and you are not a licensed Surveyor in that state. Is this practicing Land Surveying?
Also, I'd like to come up with a way to tell this guy that he is a bold faced idiot and that he should go pound sand; but I'm struggling...
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TIA
Dougie
Is this an employee of the municipality or an individual/firm contracting for the service??ÿ If the service is being provided under contract the contract itself may be offering surveying services in violation of the law.?ÿ If there is a contract it should be a public document and billing for services rendered should also be documented. Submit a redacted copy of the contract (no municipality or personal/company names) to your board of registration requesting determination if it is unlicensed practice of land surveying.?ÿ The cover letter requesting review of the situation should include a statement that the redactions are to protect both you and the municipality until the determination is made.?ÿ
Also prepare a package of documentation, codes requiring review, examples of review comments along with copies of surveys (both yours and others) as well as municipal actions taken as a result of the review.?ÿ The municipality contracting for professional services by unlicensed individuals may be in violation of laws as well as those providing the services.
Email to reviewer- "Good morning, Reviewer.
Please describe how survey is inaccurate. Thank you."
Simple, not emotional, and gets your point across.
Is this an employee of the municipality or an individual/firm contracting for the service?
This is an employee of a mid sized Engineering firm. They do offer surveying services; the person that reviewed my survey, is not a licensed Land Survey. He is listed as a Planner 3 with the company and doesn't hold a license for any profession.
The Municipality has hired this company to review the submittal of my clients Short Plat (a small subdivision) and trust that they will perform this task in a professional manor. Having a planner tell me my survey is wrong, without explanation, is not professional, in my opinion.
I do like your idea of getting the boards opinion on this matter. My client would like to see his project move forward. Turning this clown into the board is not going to make this any easier.
Thanks again for your insight...
I would try that again and CC everyone on the email, including every PLS at the firm Planner 3 works at.
If the survey does not mathematically close then it is inaccurate.?ÿ Surveyors are not the only people on the face of the earth that can figure closures.
I agree with Tim V. , find out what he doesn't like about it.
Ask him what you need to change to meet his standards (directing your work). Give him enough rope to hang himself.
Yes, but you made the point. If you want to really rub his nose in it get him on the phone and ask the question.
In regards to the original question:
There's no way to definitively tell if he/she is practicing land surveying without knowing the statutes/regulations.
What state is the reviewer in?
Regarding solving the problem:
It sounds like you've got to go through this individual, arrange to meet with them (and hopefully someone from the municipality) and discuss the plat, don't make them look dumb (no matter what the facts suggest), and work through the issues. If these activities clearly fall under the definition of surveying in this state: simultaneously file a complaint with the Board (you may be obligated to do so by law).
I do like your idea of getting the boards opinion on this matter....
I doubt that would go anywhere.?ÿ
It's my guess that the municipality assumed that the PLSs at this company would be doing the reviewing. They may be interested to know that they are paying for lesser beings. It could be that going through the municipality could get this company's contract terminated, or at least shelved. That should bring you almost as much satisfaction.?ÿ
What state is the reviewer in?
Radar practices in Washington State.
I've crossed this road before on several occasions. I've found it helpful and enlightening to dial up the firm that is providing the consulting service and ask to speak to their chief surveyor. Explain the situation and ask for a written description of what is inconsistent (a term used by one firm that I am aware of) with your project so that you may eliminate any further review and do a better job next time. Document your discussion with a followup email or letter to said consultant and copy to the city planner who is in charge of farming this out. Peer to peer is the only way this is going to work.
(9) "Practice of land surveying" means assuming responsible charge of the surveying of land for the establishment of corners, lines, boundaries, and monuments, the laying out and subdivision of land, the defining and locating of corners, lines, boundaries, and monuments of land after they have been established, the survey of land areas for the purpose of determining the topography thereof, the making of topographical delineations and the preparing of maps and accurate records thereof, when the proper performance of such services requires technical knowledge and skill.
This may or may not fall under the definition. If they are commenting that it's inaccurate, that, in itself, is not assuming responsible charge. If they are directing you to change content that falls under the definition then I'd argue that this person is assuming responsible charge of a survey activity.
I think @daniel-ralph is on the right track. I'd include the Board on that cc list - that way the Municipality and the firm understand that they may have to answer to a higher power.
Hey Radar(Dougie),
I was reviewing a Plat when i worked at my county ( posted this in the past,too lazy to search at the moment... ) and found a major bust in the drawing/legal description. I called up the surveyor and walked him through what I found(basically copied and pasted, didnt apply new calcs to the consolidated lots and new lines...yada yada yada) but didnt accuse him of being wrong and explained I needed him to confirm with me or show me what i missed. I came at it from the humble position, not like the aforementioned uppity Planner 3 needing an emotional boost.
I second or third just reaching out to see what they think is the matter,because in all likelihood you're going to teach them how to do their job better, and if they are indignant, just give them a big ol B!tchslap of reality and go higher.?ÿ I use the nuclear option on rare occasion, but when i do, people get butt hurt for years.?ÿ Good luck!
Jason
"This is an employee of a mid sized Engineering firm."?ÿ
I'd go straight to whomever in in charge of the entire consulting operation and ask him/her directly why a non-professional tech is commenting on something he is not licensed to do which is in direct violation of State laws, and will be reported to the board if the process continues. If that doesn't work I would raise hell with the municipality that is employing this consulting firm and inform them that non-professionals are dictating to a professional inaccuracies they are unqualified to perform. And the municipality as well is subject to board regulations. ?????ÿ
Dear Planner 3,
Your review indicates an inaccuracy within my survey, please provide an explanation of your comment or remove said comment and issue a new review.
Me, PLS
Paul in PA
A comment that the survey is inaccurate is a useless statement without further details.
But I don't see that a non-professional pointing out something the LS might want to recheck or correct constitutes practicing surveying.?ÿ If that person is not telling the LS how to do his job or what the answer must be, they are just suggesting the LS may want to re-focus his professional judgment on something.?ÿ This is not the only non-LS in a review position in the USA.
I agree. Since there is so much "standard language" on these documents it is perfectly plausible that the approving entity is labeled wrong. For some reason municipal planning and engineering departments change their name all the time and the individual signing for them also changes. So for that reason alone a document might be considered inaccurate. Nothing wrong with the survey part but in the eyes of the beholder a major faux-pas. Consider this an opportunity to mentor the reviewer about how to respond helpfully.
This is an employee of a mid sized Engineering firm. They do offer surveying services; the person that reviewed my survey, is not a licensed Land Survey. He is listed as a Planner 3 with the company and doesn't hold a license for any profession.
That is not uncommon. Most every municipality around here has folks reviewing the surveys and few are experienced in surveying and none are licensed.?ÿ
