Hey Everyone,
I have just been given my father's property that is located in Bexar County in San Antonio, TX. The property was first bought by my grandfather Arturo and at the time he was a widower with five children from his first marriage. He met my grandmother, who had only one son(my father), and they got married. During the marriage, Arturo adopted my father making his total legal heirs come to six children.
He died in 1983 without a will, but explained in two deed transfers that he gave half ownership to my grandmother and later an additional 25% of his 50% left to go to her as well just before he died. This gave 75% to my father, plus a share of the 25% that was left to the heirs, after my grandmother died in 1987, also with no will. An affidavit of heirship was completed, believe it or not, much later around 2004. trasferring the title to him. Since then it has gone to my brother, my mother, and now to me.
So now i have roughly 79% or so in the property and the other heirs haven't been tracked or kept in touch with since the late 70's or early 80's, except for one which is the youngest and has not been around for the past 5 years. Out of those five heirs, they are all in their lates 70's early 80's and are still alive, except for one who passed away in the 1950's. However he only had one son, which keeps the number of people i'm looking for at 5.
Question: How can i get this property 100%, what are my options?
1.) Shoot the siblings.
2.) Have somebody else do it.
3.) Plant peas, carrots, and taters on it, and call it your own!
🙂
N
OOPS, sorry, I thought you were a surveyor, and kinda kidding.
This looks like an honest question.
Find those siblings.
Time to go to a mormon web page, and research your family tree.
Research.
N
I'm interested in the responses you get. I do not have the answer, but a few questions.
Have your father, brother or your self have been paying 100% of the property taxes for quite awhile. Have you also spent time and money maintaining the property? Has anybody else?
JRL
I would suggest you consult with a real estate attorney. Surveyors offer opinions on boundaries not title interest.
I agree with Mr. baker, you really need to contact a real estate attorney.
Joe
I was going to mention speaking with a title company agent for starters, then progress towards an attorney. Usually the title agents have a pretty good idea on processes people go through to secure title. JRL
Yep. While we are a talented bunch and our professional education does include land law, our specialty is locating land. Title issues are dealt with by other professionals. Good luck.
Sounds like a mess. Having no wills makes it worse.
Some states have defaults about what happens to an estate without a will specifying. One would think it [any ownerships of anything] defaults to a surviving spouse and if none then it goes to the kids. Not so.
Some states (this one is one) take over the estate and decide.
In NC it gets more complicated. I was loosing my house to foreclosure and my ex-wife was still on the title. I was trying to do a quick-sell before it went to public auction. The real estate attorney told me her name was still on the title which I never denied. Although we had been divorced for many years it didn't matter. He said I needed to locate her. I already had had 2 attorneys and 3 PIs that failed not including the numerous phone calls to her parents who never returned any of my calls. When I asked him "what if she's dead?" he said I needed to locate her parents and her siblings. Long story short... the house went to public auction. The winning bid exceeded the debt by near about $18K which was to be given to me/us. Since her name was still on the deed that $18k stays with state as "unclaimed funds". I knew the presiding Judge pretty well by then and he knew all about my plight. I'll never forget the last time we met in person. I could tell his heart was breaking for me. You could see it in his eyes. I told him "so I'm basically f..cked aint I?". He didn't want to answer knowing I knew full well the answer so said not to bother answering "I can see it in your expression". Ironically a few months later I had moved down here to GA surveying and building my life back up (and doing quite well) I got a jury summons from his office. That got me a little wound up so I called his office, talked to the Clerk, and asked to speak the his honor right now. He got on the phone with me and after about a minute of chatting he promised to purge me from the rolls.
Sorry to ramble on about that... I guess it still upsets me a bit.
LOL you guys are pretty funny. Truth is I've been researching to get the info and figure its better to get all their info correct before seeing an attorney. Thanks for the Info.
Oh and to answer some of those questions:
yeah since my grandmother passed away and a bit before that we have always paid the property taxes on the home. Whether it be my father, brothers, or myself. We have added on to the house by extending it back and have done plumbing, wiring, and structure upgrades.
Well as far as this situation for you, i guess texas law might be a little different. In your case, i know that here we have whats called a petition to partition action lawsuit. Where the property is owned by multiple parties and where the other is either in dissagreement of what to do with the property, or in your case cannot be found. If they can't be found, they put an ad in the paper where she last lived for four weeks, if nothing then 3 commissioners would be recruited (like jury duty) where they serve the interest of the missing party. With them goes a surveyor, ironically, to value the property and to come back with a decision if the property will be devided, given to one party, or sold (force sale). In which case the municipal costs get paid first, then taxes, then divided among the owners according to percentage. plus the parties would have to pay for the commissioners and surveyor most likely, but yeah thats how its handled from my understanding of it.
Since you are all surveyors then, you could answer this question for me. The property in question actually was surveyed after a fence line had gone up, and we found out that we have another 1/2 to 1 foot that we own on the other side of the fence still.
The fenceline on that side is the length of the property side, which is around 200ft. So as far as square footage, is quite a bit taken away from the property. Is this common? if so what are the steps to correct this normally? I don't think it will be looked at too well, if i just tear down my fence and start digging inside plants and flower gardens without telling anyone. Luckily the carport that was their previously has been taken down, which was right up on my fenceline, so i think that was the reason my family never bothered with it in the past. let me know guys, appreciate the feedback
Sorry, but you are barking up the wrong tree.
These questions are for your attorney and if he feels the need, he will hire a surveyor on your behalf.
We have a hard enough time figuring out the boundary. The ownership and such is out of our expertise.
Good Luck,
Randy
The easiest answer is
buy them out. Find them and offer them money for their undivided interest.
In Texas, you cannot adversely posses against undivided owners, so the only way is to buy them out.
I do not need a bar number or surveying number to dispose of this data to a client or in a public forum.
We as surveyors, run into this all the time. We always tell them to contact an attorney for the paper work, but suggesting someone buy another out to perfect their ownership is hardly practicing law. Any idiot on the street could do that.
Now, if you're having a hard time finding them, then I would suggest finding one of the out-of-work lease hounds to prepare you an off-the-record title search and his findings and location. This is what these people get paid to do, no laws or licenses are needed or broken, and take that to the attorney.
Consult an appraiser in the area for a valuation of the land. This will give you a starting point on what you're looking at spending.
Good luck,
You can build a fence on your property, anywhere you like(just ask Kent), it does not constitute ownership.
It would be the neighborly thing to do, to talk to the adjoiner first, about moving the fence.
Kris,
Sorry, but I strongly disagree with your thinking.
"Now, if you're having a hard time finding them, then I would suggest finding one of the out-of-work lease hounds to prepare you an off-the-record title search and his findings and location. This is what these people get paid to do, no laws or licenses are needed or broken, and take that to the attorney."
Sounds like advice from a brother-in-law instead of from a Professional Surveyor.
Do you really think that an Attorney is just going to take the word of an "out-of-work lease hound"?
Stick to giving advice on boundary location, its what we are supposed to be good at, hopefully.
Randy
Randy
There are lots of those guys out there who are freelancing. Most of the time, what I proposed is what goes on anyway in the oil patch.
If all of the documentation is there from a RPL or CPL, then the attorney should bite off into it. If you're a private individual trying to locate family, heirs and figure interest, its not a bad way to go for answers at less than attoney prices, especially if it spans multiple counties. Sure a title company in ine county would be the way to go, but only if they all live in that county.
> So now i have roughly 79% or so in the property and the other heirs haven't been tracked or kept in touch with since the late 70's or early 80's, except for one which is the youngest and has not been around for the past 5 years. Out of those five heirs, they are all in their late 70's early 80's and are still alive, except for one who passed away in the 1950's. However he only had one son, which keeps the number of people i'm looking for at 5.
>
> Question: How can i get this property 100%, what are my options?
Sounds like a pretty simple question that most people would consider being in the realm of common knowledge. Surveyors, as a whole, are usually reluctant to use theirs.
"How can I get this property 100%?" Buy it. The heirs are entitled to compensation for their interest in the property. Sounds as though you've already done the research. Now go visit them. They might be pleased to get a visit from a long-lost relative.
Have the property appraised, figure out a fair price, prepare a quit claim deed (or have one prepared for you if required in your jurisdiction), gather up some old photos to reminisce with, have a pre-cut check and carry a blank one too, and plan on having a good time visiting. You can make it a fun and enjoyable experience getting to know them. frame up an old family portrait to leave as a gift. It's always easier to catch flies with honey, they say.
JBS
JBS
Exactly my thoughts! Exactly!
The easiest answer is
like Kris and JB said buy them out. However,if as you say, your family has been paying all of the taxes and insurance for years, calculate the amount they would have paid if they had been paying per their percentage ownership. If necessary, that could become a lever to use if someone becomes stubborn.
As I tell people who have to deal with others, be nice first. Save nasty for only if needed.
🙂
