Surveyor Shortage Hits The Employment Marketplace

the attention and offers i've gotten- completely unsolicited- over the last few months... i won't pretend like it's not a little flattering, but yeah. it's a little eye opening. pretty sure that none of these headhunters and HR directors are as enamored with my greatness as I am.

it's too bad i don't work well in button-up type environments because i could easily be making more money than i ever have- or ever thought i would, at least as a surveyor...

flyin solo, post: 453383, member: 8089 wrote: it's too bad i don't work well in button-up type environments because i could easily be making more money than i ever have- or ever thought i would, at least as a surveyor...

That's really the catch...you basically have to be willing (and able) to only work half the time (at best) as a surveyor and half the time a business manager.

James Fleming, post: 453384, member: 136 wrote: That's really the catch...you basically have to be willing (and able) to only work half the time (at best) as a surveyor and half the time a business manager.

Isn't that a natural progression? Don't get me wrong. I love the romantic notion of nothing but GLO retracements and challenging boundaries, but we have to make money. If we don't fulfill the business roles we live under the thumb of non-Surveyors.
Gotta take the good with the bad...

i can handle business management just fine- only i don't need pressed shirts and a bunch of mutual har-har/pud-tugging to do it.

I'll believe the so called "surveyor shortage" hysteria when surveyors performing the everyday GLO retracements and boundary surveys are making the kind of money the big corporate ALTA/construction/BIM/management types are making, or more. Until then, maybe we ought to be focusing on the quality of surveyors we are allowing into our profession instead of the quantity of licenses we hand out.

Brian Allen, post: 453394, member: 1333 wrote: I'll believe the so called "surveyor shortage" hysteria when surveyors performing the everyday GLO retracements and boundary surveys are making the kind of money the big corporate ALTA/construction/BIM/management types are making, or more.

The problem here is that they could easily make that money, but choose not to. I know guys who work 70 hour weeks and never take time off doing boundary work that consistently price their work product at less than 50 cents on the dollar in comparison to their peers. A recent email (from an agency that has found a loophole to get around the state "baby Brooks Act" by administering the contracts in their agency rather than through the state GSA)

[INDENT]Thank you very much for submitting a proposal for boundary survey contract XXX-000-00. The low bid was submitted by Race to the Bottom Surveys at $6,250.00. The Bid Results are as follows:

Firm A
$14,400.00

Firm B
$14,490.00

Firm C
$18,365.00[/INDENT]

Maybe if everyone had a little bit more Business manager in them, we constantly would not have to deal with clients telling us, Well so an so firm (from out of town, that doesn't have a clue about business, doesn't pay per-diem, Uses 1990 era rates, and pays employee's wage from the same era, treats a trip as a vacation, and doesn't charge an hourly rate for all the work put into a project) will do it for half the cost and they said they will work over the weekend. My answer is good luck.

On shortage. I would say our area of the pacific NW has seen a pretty constant smattering of open positions from starting field position to survey department managers over the past year plus.

I do have to admit that in states like Maryland there is a market constraint due to the fact that certain "minor engineering" (as they are know in the regulations) tasks are part of the statutory definition of Land Surveying and, as such, one needs experience or education in these areas to be able to sit for the exam (the state specific exams here are a two hour law exam and a four hour drainage exam).

That drastically reduces the number of candidates for jobs that can relocate and move straight into a position that requires a license. Someone relocating from, say California, with no education or experience in hydrology, grading, and drainage design, would need to take 12 credit hours of classes in the evenings before they could even apply to sit for the state specific exam by comity.

Ring Ring: Mr Chuck, we understand you have over 30 years experience with all survey related matters and crews and software and such and we are interested in offering you a very attractive position to get our survey department operating efficiently even though we know you are in your late 60's.
How long do you think you will be working?

Mr Chuck: until 2PM.

I'm wondering if we are about to have a big correction.

Dave Karoly, post: 453423, member: 94 wrote: I'm wondering if we are about to have a big correction.

A lot of the work in this market isn't land development related.....it's mostly transit and infrastructure.

The real estate market went nuts here last spring, multiple bids on houses, houses selling in two days, that kind of thing. But it's cooled off considerably unless the house is new inside and immaculate (HGTV we need to gut this perfectly good kitchen). This is supposedly driven by the Bay Area moving up here (cheap office space). We will see what happens this spring.

Meanwhile all the contractors are very busy, had a painter do the living room for $30/hour. I'm thinking he could easily double his rates. This could be people thinking the market is still going up so invest to maximize profit or people thinking can't sell it unless it's perfect inside.

I'm watching a house I'd like to buy, almost a half acre, 2900 sf but not immaculate inside (I'm okay with it), started at 625, lowered 3 times, just went down to 560. But that isn't investment property, so in my opinion, to attract a wealthy buyer it needs to be in the md 4s so they can wipe the lot and start over (plenty of houses in the million plus range nearby). We could do it except our house isn't in good enough shape to get what we need to do it. But I'd rather stay here and keep my 15 year loan.

Caltrans is on a hiring spree right now, if the development market crashes they will find it easier to find people to hire, if the legislature doesn't slash the budget in a downturn, that is. It used to be working for the government meant lower pay but in the downturns you kept your job and salary then they pulled the rug out, furloughs, but they've paid for that by having to increase salaries considerably because private sector folks know they need to make hay while the sunshines.

James Fleming, post: 453397, member: 136 wrote: The problem here is that they could easily make that money, but choose not to. I know guys who work 70 hour weeks and never take time off doing boundary work that consistently price their work product at less than 50 cents on the dollar in comparison to their peers. A recent email (from an agency that has found a loophole to get around the state "baby Brooks Act" by administering the contracts in their agency rather than through the state GSA)

[INDENT]Thank you very much for submitting a proposal for boundary survey contract XXX-000-00. The low bid was submitted by Race to the Bottom Surveys at $6,250.00. The Bid Results are as follows:

Firm A
$14,400.00

Firm B
$14,490.00

Firm C
$18,365.00[/INDENT]

I hear you loud and clear Mr. Fleming, I see it quite often. That's why I believe we should be focusing on quality instead of quantity. If we required more education in, and a better understanding of boundary law and business management in our licensing requirements, once the "race to the bottom" surveyors finally either die or meagerly retire, their replacements will only elevate our profession.
Also, once we eliminate "bidding" from our profession, we will all be far better off.

Boundary Surveying and Heavy Engineering Surveying are two different professions, really.

Dave Karoly, post: 453435, member: 94 wrote: Boundary Surveying and Heavy Engineering Surveying are two different professions, really.

When it's gets to construction maybe, but boundary surveying for 20 miles of road right of way, or light rail right of way, or utility easements is still boundary surveying. I did one six mile rails to trails project where I had to perform boundary surveys for over 250 properties

Donƒ??t go James. You just got here.

I understand that there are surveyors who started out in the office and others in the field. They both have their pros and cons. I was brought up through the field side and truly enjoy that side of things even though I'm needed in the office as well. With today's youth and how they believe and act, it's hard to find good help that you can trust. When I worked for a big firm, I was confined to an office managing several crews. I hated it. When I'd get a chance to go check on a crew, I was out the door. There's something about breathing the fresh air while digging up a pipe which hasn't been found in several decades that soothes my soul. Also, I want to make sure that those clowns were doing it right. Mostly, they weren't which is one reason I don't work for a big firm anymore and I do my own work now. I can trust myself.
I don't think it's a matter of having a shortage in manpower. It's a matter of a shortage of SKILLED AMBITIOUS manpower. I can teach a monkey to push buttons and collect data. I need people who can collect the data, analyse it, and make a decision in the field so as to increase workflow and decrease trips to the jobsite. Before we can increase our numbers, we must have hands worthy of being a professional land surveyor. That, I feel, is our biggest problem right now. Here in Texas, we don't have enough colleges teaching Surveying so that burden falls upon us. That's hard to do with a big staff.

Brian Allen, post: 453394, member: 1333 wrote: I'll believe the so called "surveyor shortage" hysteria when surveyors performing the everyday GLO retracements and boundary surveys are making the kind of money the big corporate ALTA/construction/BIM/management types are making, or more. Until then, maybe we ought to be focusing on the quality of surveyors we are allowing into our profession instead of the quantity of licenses we hand out.

Our State used to be known for being tough to get approved but a fairly easy exam. Now we are 'removing barriers to licensure' to the point that it's a takehome test. Unreal.