Got this phone call from girl who works at a local financial institution.
Her: I need a price on a foundation survey. The house is on 7.7 acres.
Me: I'll be glad to get some information from you and work up a proposal. Who owns the property?
Her: I don't know, I just need a price. The boss needs a number to put on a form.
Me: Asking what a survey costs is like asking what it costs to fix a car. Until I know much more about it, there is no answer.
Her: Oh. Can't you just give me a number that you are sure you won't go over?
Me: No, I can't. Until I have more information I have no idea. As of right now, you've given me nothing to go on. You are asking for a price on a product that is unknown, working in an area that is unknown and working behind who knows what sort of existing survey.
Her: Oh. Let me ask the boss who the client is and I'll call you back.
Later
Her: The property is tax parcel __________.
Me: Ok, I have that on my screen now. What exactly do you need as a result of this work?
Her: I don't know, the boss just needs a number for the form.
Me: So you'd like me to give you a price for providing a service you can't describe to me. You have no idea what service is needed or what the results need to be.
Her: It is ok to start out high at this point but you can't go over that price.
Me: Price for what exactly?
Her: I don't know.
Me: Exactly. You want me to give you a price on a service when you can't tell me what service you want. You do see the problem with that, right?
Her: Oh, yeah, I guess that is a problem. But the boss needs a number for his form.
Later
I got a copy of the existing deed. Hummm. That property was transfered last week. The description is terrible. Very bad. But wait, there was a map recorded last week. Hummmm. Ok.
I find out a local surveyor recorded the map so I call him.
Him: Oh yes, the ______ property. He is a pain in the ass. We still haven't been paid on that job. He claimed we didn't put markers on the property line every 50 feet and that is always included with every survey.
Me: What did your contract with him say?
Him: We didn't have a contract. We never do.
Me: I see. Well, we have been asked for a price to do a foundation survey on that property but I can tell you two things. 1. I won't touch it unless and until you are paid in full. 2. They are unlikely to get me to do the work as I will insist on redoing the boundary before doing the foundation survey.
There is so much wrong with this picture it is hard to know where to start. Of one thing I am fairly sure. The other surveyor will very likely throw out a number for the bosses form without even the vaguest notion of what service is needed. In the end he likely won't get paid because the client and the financial institution will not agree that he has provided what they thought they wanted and needed.
Larry P
Hey Larry,
Why is he asking you for a price? He knows already. $0.00
Oh, wait, I get it, he needs a price for his form. That means he wants to know how much he will retain from the client for the cost of the survey; not how much he'll pay.
😉
Business is a bitch! I would have told her $3K.
"I won't touch it unless and until you are paid in full."
I wish there were more in our business that would take that stance...
Cudos to you.
> "I won't touch it unless and until you are paid in full."
>
> I wish there were more in our business that would take that stance...
> Cudos to you.
Double Cudos!:good:
> "I won't touch it unless and until you are paid in full."
Actually, that is required by NC Law. In fact, it is in the Code of Ethics in most of the States where I have taught. Then again, just because it is in the code does not mean it is well understood or adhered to.
Larry P
Must be something in the air this week about these requests.
I got this one this morning.
"We are planning on building a couple of structures on a piece of property. What do you charge to do a elevation certification?"
Senior Loan Officer
Some Bank
This is all that it had. No address, county, nothing. It's almost worth not responding, as I know my fee will be too high. They will find someone out of Houston to come and do it for $150 - $300.
When she calls back, tell her that you have just bought a 100 acre parcel of land that you are going to build a house upon.
Tell her that you will need a good foundation pad for the new house, and seeing that she is in that business, can she give you a "not to exceed" price for the foundation.
When she asks "How many square feet is it?", tell her "I don't know. I haven't picked an architectural plan yet. I just need a figure to give to the bank."
When she says "I cannot give you a figure until I know the square footage of the house." give her your best "OH REALLY!!".
I doubt if she will get the point, but it will be fun to mess with this little jewel.
I think many of these people charge for producing a piece of paper, and the product they see from you is a piece of paper. They can't understand that the piece of necessary paper from you is different for different properties.
However, having said that, I am not sure they are to blame for not understanding surveying. They need to be educated more than ridiculed. I think land surveying is one of the most misunderstood professions there is. And part of the misunderstanding is that every already has a notion of what it is. An engineer thinks it is an engineer paraprofessional (subordinate), and a realtor thinks it is a realty subordinate.
I will definately give her a call and explain the importance of knowing where the property is, etc. even going in that my fee is probably too high.
We as a profession, have really failed in educating the public, clients, etc. on the importance and value of surveying and I have been trying hard to change that trend. My main business does not come from banks, title companies, etc. and instead from a long list of repeat clients who understand the value of what I provide to them.
I take pride in that two of my biggest client has solely used our company since 1970. Business is about building relationships with clients and having them realize value over price. If some in our profession would ever realize this, then we would all be in a better place.
I have a little bit of a problem with that. I have no problem with refusing to do any work on a project where a surveyor that acted like a profession was not paid.
However, if the client refused to pay someone that behaved like an ass or didn't provide a product that met the minimum standards, I would have no problem accepting the survey. Now, I might make that person pay up front, and I might do some asking around to find out what kind of character the client it.
I just don't understand why it should be my reponsibility to protect someone else's bad business practices.
