Client: How much to survey my lot?
Me: I'm estimating about $1500.
Client: Wow, that's a lot! How about if I help?
Me: Oh, well, if you help, then I'd estimate about $3,000!
- Client: what is your schedule?
- Me: schedule? I can't predict how long it will take to do anything I do. If absolutely everything I'm planning goes right for the first time in history, and if the weather stays clear, then I have no honest idea when I have the completion of your survey scheduled. And yes I will call you two hours before I know I'm gonna be there so you can help.?ÿ
It sounds like we are all in the same boat.?ÿ ?ÿI'm at the point where I'm ready to give up.?ÿ It doesn't matter what I do, I'm pissing of some body.?ÿ I have tried to set my schedule and complete by dates far enough out to meet the schedule.?ÿ But still can't meet them.?ÿ Either it rains, my guys call out, my new chief doesn't finish in the expected time, his location is missing info and is so out of wack it take me three times as long to figure out and draw.?ÿ And I'm still working on a Saturday till 4:30 am Sunday after needing to drive an hour Saturday evening to take pictures and?ÿ figure out what my new $25/HR with paid health care, vaca, holiday,?ÿ crew chief with 10 years experience, located and didn't locate.?ÿ
I mean hell I'm ready to just give up and get a corporate LS job.?ÿ I have tried training, he did great in parking lots but if the woods were too "woody"?ÿ I had to go out to get it done while he watched.?ÿ ?ÿ
My Iman is a 19yr who has come along way with my training but is in no way ready to for any responsibility other than running the gun and typing the codes.?ÿI can trust him when I'm in field but only do to constantly checking and calling out exact codes.?ÿ?ÿ
But after two weeks of him with the "chief"?ÿ I see nothing we have done the past 3 months has sunk in.?ÿ?ÿ
I am lost.?ÿ I can't do all the field work and drafting and run the business and all that entails.?ÿ And make my clients happy, my wife happy or myself happy.?ÿ
I am about done.?ÿ?ÿ
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Only a PLS could turn enormous demand for their services into a stressor.?ÿ Here's how I've been dealing with the workload:
Client: I need a survey and no one can get to it for three months.
Me:?ÿ I can become available in two months but I may be the most expensive surveyor in the county.
Client:?ÿ How much are we talking?
Me: If you're asking that question, you probably can't afford me.
Client: No, I have to get it done or I'll lose out on the option to buy.
Me: Okay then, provide my some more details and your contact info and I'll send you an estimate.
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I'm not sure if it is the confidence I try to exude or the appearance of exclusivity, but I'm bringing in much more money and not working more hours.?ÿ
Instead of stressing-out, just double or even triple your rates.
@murphy my problem isn't rates my fees are in line with most operations of my size.?ÿ About two months ago I priced 7 projects for new client at higher than usual rates for the same projects with existing clients asked him to let me know if agreeable and how to proceed.?ÿ Didn't hear back until I delivered a project a month late and he asked when he could expect the 7 jobs I price 6 weeks prior.?ÿ I said I never heard back regarding my fees and he said I sent them to you it meant you had them.?ÿ So now I have 7 jobs already perceived to be 6 weeks behind that I haven't scheduled. And thats the story of my life nowadays.?ÿ I have about 30k in AR in the last 3 weeks and haven't had the time to figure what I have waiting to be done.?ÿ I love having the work but hate the constant barrage of emails and calls wondering about the delivery.?ÿ And feeling like I'm letting them down.
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Lucky you!
I could never do that. And to be honest, I don't think I would want to do that.
I used to leave the house around 6am. As far as I am concerned, driving to work is an acceptable time to ring when you are a project surveyor who is responsible for handling your own clients. You know....team player and all that stuff.
But 4am was just too much.
@vasurvey3004 it has and continues to be a long term life lesson for me. ?ÿ
We are in the business of managing expectations. ?ÿIf I think it will take 1 dollar and 1 month to complete a project. ?ÿ
These days I ??try? to under-promise estimated deadlines by telling the potential client in my proposal that the anticipated estimated timeframe will be 3-4 months. ?ÿ
Then, when it comes to dollars, I try to judge the value to this particular client. ?ÿI try to ask, ??why do you think you need this survey?? ?ÿThen, maybe the estimate will be 4-10 dollars. ?ÿ
Then, I do not plug it into the workload list until I have a signed contract and a 50% non-refundable retainer fee.
Then I read posts from folks like Murphy and try to remember to be grateful for this workload and try to not be stressed about it.
Lots of ??trys? in this sermon today.
Otter out (for now).
aka Thor (Mighty god of thunder)
What exactly is the point of bringing on these extra guys??ÿ Can you not make sufficient money by yourself?
It's your modesty. People are desperate to get it done. Time is often more important than money. The cost of the survey is not the largest cost of any project.
I agree that the best time to increase fees is when the demand is high.
@bstrand I guess that depends on your defintion of sufficient money??ÿ I mean just to net 100k a year you have to bill about $250k gross. That pays for a helper/I man,?ÿ health insurance, fuel, equipment, truck, surveying supplies, computer, software, accountant, personal property taxes, income taxes, with holding taxes, general liability insurance, professional liability insurance, workmans comp insurance, auto insurance, and every other Nickel and dime expense that comes with the business.
In regards to hiring a chief, no I don't necessarily have to have one. And can do it on my own with my I man.?ÿ But that doesn't serve my clients interest very well since I can no longer put in 16 hour days every day to do the field work and drafting and billing and payroll and answer emails and bid jobs and write those bills I previously mentioned and spend any time with my wife, kids, grandkids, family and still not get the jobs complete on time.
So yes I need a chief.?ÿ But Damn aren't there anymore Chiefs out there that have a clue.?ÿ Especially those with 10 years surveying experience and asking for $25/HR.?ÿ
Regarding my client base.?ÿ I work for 4 engineers, 1 developer and 1 construction company mainly.?ÿ A few attorneys, the private referrals and every other client I have worked for the past 15 years.
I don't believe in putting all my eggs in one basket.?ÿ My ex business partner did that, he got a big job that was good the past 10 years, he ran off all his other small clients to service the big client.?ÿ Well the big client job is winding down and he's been scrambling.
When the recession hit, my design engineers didn't have much, construction was slow, but my tower engineers were rocking and rolling and that kept me fed and us in business. So I'm a firm believer in doing what is necessary to keep my diversified client base happy.?ÿ And that's really what it's about for me.?ÿ?ÿ
However in today's market and my current age im finding more difficult to do that without help.?ÿ But it seems that my "new help" isn't up to the task. And I'm still working 16 hour days.?ÿ And taking my wife on hour drives on the weekends so I can make sense of the field work my new chief did.?ÿ Then turning chicken shit into chicken salad.
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Sorry for the rant had a lot to get off my chest. Thanks for y'alls advice and support.
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@vasurvey3004 this is a well written detail of true struggles where the rubber hits the road for you. ?ÿI feel your pain. ?ÿWe are not getting any younger. ?ÿWe have to learn to manage expectations. ?ÿOurs and others.
@bstrand I guess that depends on your defintion of sufficient money??ÿ
What I was getting at is that we work to live, right??ÿ You could be a 1-man shop working 8-10 hour days servicing a smaller client list if you wanted to??ÿ Why not do that??ÿ I'm guessing the answer is something money related.
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Also, a couple statistics:
The average wage in 2019 in the US was $51,916.27
Full-time working men in 2019 had median earnings of $57,456
https://policyadvice.net/insurance/insights/average-american-income/
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You mention paying your new guy $25/hour ($50,000/year) so assuming the data in the link is ballpark accurate-- right out of the gate you're paying a below average wage.?ÿ Cost of living varies from one region to another of course, but at the same time I think it's helpful to be aware of what folks are making on a broader scale.
Anyway, I was making almost that much money when I was straight out of school in 2017 as a green crew chief and I was able to live fairly comfortably on that with no wife or kids.?ÿ I think if I was making that amount of money after 10 years of experience I better either be 1.) bad at it, or 2.) mad about it.
Anyway, have you thought about offering $30/hour and seeing what kind of help you might get?
@micheal-daubyn-2
"...And don't you dare sleep with your phone off."
Me: Not a problem- please email me the new "extra hours" rate you will be paying me from 6pm to 6am every day to leave my phone on, above my regular salary. Also note weekends are 1.5x the usual rate...
😉
The vast majority of surveyors out there base the cost of a project on the time it takes to do said project.?ÿ Time has been reduced over the years with new technology, depressing our wages, and worth.?ÿ We all need to base the cost of the project on the value to our clients, more than the time it takes to complete the task.?ÿ I have been doing that over the last 2 years, and I am much happier for it, and my clients don't care, because the work is done at a cost that is acceptable.
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BUT, it did not clow the work down.?ÿ Still months behind.
