Reckon what the chances are of getting the Justice Department to go after some of these surveying boards for restraint of trade? In particular, there is one southern state that descriminates against out of state licensees with their continuing education requirements.
Tommy Young, post: 402090, member: 703 wrote: ... what the chances are of getting the Justice Department to go after some of these surveying boards for restraint of trade ...
Offhand I'd say zero. But I'd like to here a little more detail before I settle on that.
Would need more specifics.
I'll take a wag that your maybe referring to FL.
I have been told for decades that FL has discouraged out of state applicants.
I assume that would extend to registered licensees.
My specific beef is I took a continuing education class. No credit is given for this class because the provider did not pay their provider fee to the state board. However, a provider that did pay said fee does award credit, even though it has the same instructor and material as the class I took.
I don't live anywhere near said state, so no provider of a classroom setting course is going to jump through endless hoops to accommodate one or two attendees.
This has nothing to do with educating surveyors and everything to do with empowering the local cabal.
If Gary Kent teaches a course on the ALTA standards, and your state does not award credit for that, it just proves that your board is not interested in education. Could you imagine the medical board claiming, "I'm sorry, but we cannot give you credit for the course Dr. Salk taught on the polio vaccine. He wasn't a licensed continuing education provider."
That is one reason that SAMSOG stopped trying to provide CEU's that were acceptable to Florida as well as Georgia even though there are many who are licensed in both states. You pay the money, jump through all the hoops and schedule the classes. Lord help you if you have reschedule or (gasp) change the venue.
Andy
Andy Bruner, post: 402131, member: 1123 wrote: That is one reason that SAMSOG stopped trying to provide CEU's that were acceptable to Florida as well as Georgia even though there are many who are licensed in both states. You pay the money, jump through all the hoops and schedule the classes. Lord help you if you have reschedule or (gasp) change the venue.
Andy
Georgia should pass a retaliatory law.
"Any licensee with a place of business located south of the 31st parallel and east of the Perdido River must attend a biannual professional development class held in Rossville, Georgia.
Tommy Young, post: 402090, member: 703 wrote: Reckon what the chances are of getting the Justice Department to go after some of these surveying boards for restraint of trade?
0.00%
Restraint of trade laws regulate private contracts and agreements between corporations and individuals that work to restrain trade contrary to public policy. Since licensing boards, as part of the executive branch everywhere I'm licensed, make public policy by definition they can't act contrary to it.
On the other hand...I'm going to make a fortune selling ice skates and parkas in hell now that Mr. Young has openly advocated for the federal government to use federal law to go after a state for making regulations that are obviously reserved for the state by the 10th Amendment.
James Fleming, post: 402137, member: 136 wrote: 0.00%
On the other hand...I'm going to make a fortune selling ice skates and parkas in hell now that Mr. Young has openly advocated for the federal government to use federal law to go after a state for making regulations that are obviously reserved for the state by the 10th Amendment.
Lol
James Fleming, post: 402137, member: 136 wrote: 0.00%
Restraint of trade laws regulate private contracts and agreements between corporations and individuals that work to restrain trade contrary to public policy. Since licensing boards, as part of the executive branch everywhere I'm licensed, make public policy by definition they can't act contrary to it.
On the other hand...I'm going to make a fortune selling ice skates and parkas in hell now that Mr. Young has openly advocated for the federal government to use federal law to go after a state for making regulations that are obviously reserved for the state by the 10th Amendment.
James, google SCOTUS decision on North Carolina Dental Board vs. FTC and I believe you may revise your thoughts on this
Ric Moore, post: 402143, member: 731 wrote: James, google SCOTUS decision on North Carolina Dental Board vs. FTC and I believe you may revise your thoughts on this
The point that case turned on was that the NC Dental Board operated without sufficient executive branch oversight. I believe the board nominated its own members rather than being appointed by the executive.
Additionally the court pointed out that the dental board was attempting to regulate an activity (tooth whitening) that wasn't mentioned in any existing state regulation. The NC Board still has full power to regulate dentist and dentistry as defined under state law.
James Fleming, post: 402137, member: 136 wrote: 0.00%
Restraint of trade laws regulate private contracts and agreements between corporations and individuals that work to restrain trade contrary to public policy. Since licensing boards, as part of the executive branch everywhere I'm licensed, make public policy by definition they can't act contrary to it.
On the other hand...I'm going to make a fortune selling ice skates and parkas in hell now that Mr. Young has openly advocated for the federal government to use federal law to go after a state for making regulations that are obviously reserved for the state by the 10th Amendment.
I disagree. If a state tried to enact a tariff on goods from another state, that state would rightfully be ruled that it was attempting to regulate interstate commerce, which it is not allowed to do. I believe my situation is similar, if not nearly as extreme.
Tommy Young, post: 402155, member: 703 wrote: I disagree. If a state tried to enact a tariff on goods from another state, that state would rightfully be ruled that it was attempting to regulate interstate commerce, which it is not allowed to do. I believe my situation is similar, if not nearly as extreme.
Fees aren't tariffs or taxes.
Look at out of state tuition fees for state universities. Your situation is similar.
off topic a little bit:
has anyone ever shown that Continuing Education actually enhances the skills of the professional?
Not actual education, but the formal classes.
You know, to maintain basic competency in the craft...
I have never been required to earn or prove CE, but have a multitude of certificates from seminars and classes. As I flip thru them I feel that only about 15% had "high value", the rest were just kinda entertainment.
I could name 3 providers that are big in the "CE business" that provide little value, but I won't
A year or so ago our State had a proposal I saw as unpalatable. I approached the Board and they relented. Granted it can be more difficult. Has anyone tried?
Robert Hill, post: 402157, member: 378 wrote: Fees aren't tariffs or taxes.
Look at out of state tuition fees for state universities. Your situation is similar.
That's what my utility companies tell me to. About 6 months prior to my emigration I will stop paying "fees" and we will see...
The state charges a meager fee for the permit of a class that they have approved the content of.
I spent today in CEU class for Gradient Boundary and it would not have benefited anyone outside of Texas.
I fired off a two page letter to the board with a few attachments. We'll see what transpires.
Peter Ehlert, post: 402160, member: 60 wrote: off topic a little bit:
has anyone ever shown that Continuing Education actually enhances the skills of the professional?
Not actual education, but the formal classes.
You know, to maintain basic competency in the craft...I have never been required to earn or prove CE, but have a multitude of certificates from seminars and classes. As I flip thru them I feel that only about 15% had "high value", the rest were just kinda entertainment.
I could name 3 providers that are big in the "CE business" that provide little value, but I won't
My answer to the restraint of trade comment is this: If you are taking the trouble to get a license to practice in a particular state where you don't live, and make money off it's citizens, then you need to take the trouble to take their CEU's as well.....why should there be a free ride? The laws, statues and codes of practice regulating land surveying can't all be the same so there has to be some education and competence taken into account.
Too many licensed professionals look at CEU's as a burden.
I have been attending since 1982, well before CEU's were made mandatory in the states where I practice (still not required in one state).
Believe me, I can say I have heard the same things over and over and.....over and over again. Nonetheless, what I learned kept me out of trouble more times than I care to count.
I'm looking forward to this February's conference, just as I do every year. Each class I attend gives me several new things I didn't know, or wouldn't have found in a textbook or an article.
And very often, questions from the attendees (the ones who are staying awake) in these classes often have the benefit of further enlightenment and lively discussion.
I always thought if you can't come up with a few new pieces of information in ANY CEU class, you aren't doing YOUR part.
sicilian cowboy, post: 402534, member: 705 wrote: My answer to the restraint of trade comment is this: If you are taking the trouble to get a license to practice in a particular state where you don't live, and make money off it's citizens, then you need to take the trouble to take their CEU's as well.....why should there be a free ride? The laws, statues and codes of practice regulating land surveying can't all be the same so there has to be some education and competence taken into account.
Too many licensed professionals look at CEU's as a burden.
I have been attending since 1982, well before CEU's were made mandatory in the states where I practice (still not required in one state).
Believe me, I can say I have heard the same things over and over and.....over and over again. Nonetheless, what I learned kept me out of trouble more times than I care to count.I'm looking forward to this February's conference, just as I do every year. Each class I attend gives me several new things I didn't know, or wouldn't have found in a textbook or an article.
And very often, questions from the attendees (the ones who are staying awake) in these classes often have the benefit of further enlightenment and lively discussion.
I always thought if you can't come up with a few new pieces of information in ANY CEU class, you aren't doing YOUR part.
The problem isn't that they are required, it's the way some States 'twist the knife'. Continuing Ed should be accepted based on content. If there is doubt have the licensee make a case. Making them travel just because you can is being silly..
