Ric, Probably not a specific law but generally the intent is there if we are all suppose to protect safety, health welfare of the public.?ÿ Jp
"Maybe ethically speaking, but does your state have laws that require this? "
If the term "Members of the board" means all licensed surveyors, Tennessee laws require surveyors to report violations (it could be just for appointed Board members).
You can be held for ethical reason buy not legally liable if you're not sealing it. That's the word from the BOE. As I suspected it would be.?ÿ
GPS field procedures? Federal guidelines? Last time I looked at Federal guidelines for GPS they were very outdated. My old 4400 and my R10 are two different worlds when it comes to GPS.
GPS is changing so fast; field procedures that were valid a few years ago are almost meaningless today.?ÿ
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Maybe ethically speaking, but does your state have laws that require this??ÿ I know California does not.
Washington has rules of professional conduct as it pertains to Engineers and Land Surveyors.?ÿ I can't imagine that all states don't have something similar.?ÿ
Chapter 196-27-020 (1)(d) WAC which states: Registrants who have knowledge or reason to believe that another person or firm may be in violation of any of the provisions of chapter 18.43 RCW or these rules of professional conduct shall present such information to the board in writing and shall cooperate with the board in furnishing such further information or assistance as may be required.
RCW 18.43.105 defines Misconduct or Malpractice in the practice of engineering (and land surveying). Paragraph 11; Committing any other act, or failing to act, which act or failure are customarily regarded as being contrary to the accepted professional conduct or standard generally expected of those practicing professional engineering or land surveying.?ÿ
These two sections of law not only require you to question what you feel is substandard here, but also to put it in writing to the BOR for their determination.?ÿ
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"You can be held for ethical reason buy not legally liable if you're not sealing it. That's the word from the BOE. As I suspected it would be."
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I would need to see some case law to believe that. Even if true, you are ignoring a scenario in which your boss claims that you led him to believe that you performed the survey in a professional manner. You are, after all, aware of all rules as evidenced by your licensure. It would be easier for your company to throw all blame on you, since you are the on the ground, then to admit to a policy of ignoring minimum requirements. If you stay with them, keep a journal documenting the situation. Don't use a company issued field book. Only write in your journal after hours and consistently date and time it so that it can not be considered any form of corporate property.?ÿ
Ric, Probably not a specific law but generally the intent is there if we are all suppose to protect safety, health welfare of the public.?ÿ Jp
Maybe, but enforcing that based solely on intent without sufficient legal language may not be sustainable.
"Maybe ethically speaking, but does your state have laws that require this? "
If the term "Members of the board" means all licensed surveyors, Tennessee laws require surveyors to report violations (it could be just for appointed Board members).
Hi John, I couldn't comment on how the AG in Tennessee would interpret "Members of the board" as it applies in context with their laws.?ÿ I'm pretty sure that in California, that term would be limited to the actual current appointed members of the board and not extend to mean all licensees regulated by that board.?ÿ But who knows what laws in other states say.
Maybe ethically speaking, but does your state have laws that require this??ÿ I know California does not.
Washington has rules of professional conduct as it pertains to Engineers and Land Surveyors.?ÿ I can't imagine that all states don't have something similar.?ÿ
Chapter 196-27-020 (1)(d) WAC which states: Registrants who have knowledge or reason to believe that another person or firm may be in violation of any of the provisions of chapter 18.43 RCW or these rules of professional conduct shall present such information to the board in writing and shall cooperate with the board in furnishing such further information or assistance as may be required.
RCW 18.43.105 defines Misconduct or Malpractice in the practice of engineering (and land surveying). Paragraph 11; Committing any other act, or failing to act, which act or failure are customarily regarded as being contrary to the accepted professional conduct or standard generally expected of those practicing professional engineering or land surveying.?ÿ
These two sections of law not only require you to question what you feel is substandard here, but also to put it in writing to the BOR for their determination.?ÿ
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TNRLS and Daniel - I understand that laws and regulations in other states may actually provide language to this effect - which is way I asked the question.?ÿ We have a Code of Professional Conduct in California regulations also, but our legal counsel and the AG have made it VERY clear that that Code section is NOT ethics and that ethics are a byproduct of the profession and not a legal citation.?ÿ
All good comments,but an ethics violation and a violation of regulation or "negligent", are two different things. And legally the one who stamps a survey is the one who is certifying it. Not a random employee. That's the seperation, even being licensed you are technically working under their supervision. Otherwise you would be certifying it. The state isn't in the business of telling persons who aren't certifying anything that they must follow the rules or quit. It is the responsibility of the surveyor in responsible charge to ensure all standards are met. That is how our laws are clearly stated. It simply puts the person being told what to do in a very bad situation.?ÿ
They are old and outdated, but they also include that many of the things it covers is at the discretion of the surveyor as long as the process is followed and yield in results in accordance with the accuracy standards and instruments used. You can find them in USACE manuals or BLM manuals, they are the same standards. But the basics must be followed. In TN you must do all work on ground scale. An issue that still seems to perplex like 90% of all surveyors I've met to date.?ÿ
All good comments,but an ethics violation and a violation of regulation or "negligent", are two different things. And legally the one who stamps a survey is the one who is certifying it. Not a random employee. That's the seperation, even being licensed you are technically working under their supervision. Otherwise you would be certifying it. The state isn't in the business of telling persons who aren't certifying anything that they must follow the rules or quit. It is the responsibility of the surveyor in responsible charge to ensure all standards are met. That is how our laws are clearly stated. It simply puts the person being told what to do in a very bad situation.?ÿ
I generally agree with you that the licensee who signs/seals the work that was performed would be considered responsible by the Board in California regardless of business structure or management hierarchy.
Make no mistake, it doesn't make me feel good or look good in others view. It is the reason I posted to get opinion. My situation has been resolved by my total virtue of stubbornness. The ex-wife can contest to that, it just does not set me up for good futures with this company and that sucks. The fact one would have to leave to progress in a career due to the fact the others are negligent or incompetent, or just plain ignorant. Either way, it appears my future will soon be elsewhere.?ÿ #staywithsmallfirms
All good comments,but an ethics violation and a violation of regulation or "negligent", are two different things.
I'm not sure I agree with this statement 100%.?ÿ In the case of an unintentional mistake, okay.?ÿ But a willful decision to not follow a regulation is a poor ethical decision in my opinion.?ÿ When becoming licensed it is well known what regulations must be followed.?ÿ Not following them is a decision to violate the law.
ethics
ethical
both are vague undefined terms. definitions are not codified. Inherently Subjective.
Violation and Negligent are easy to pin down.
In TN, the new GPS regulations went into effect back in April, I believe. I agree with those who said that the state's minimum standards are just that, minimum requirements, and nothing prohibits you or a company exceeding them, but you cannot do anything less than the minimum standards, bottom line.
