The huge problem here
Boundary agreement would not be possible - he killed our cat because she was on his side of fence - tried to take her head off - we suspect with a shovel - then threw her back over the fence - long story but bad blood 🙁
The huge problem here
Well good luck and expect 20k + on attorney fees. Neither will win. Maybe you can use a shovel on him. I like Southern Justice..Just saying. I really wish you well.
The huge problem here
well other than losing my pool half of my garage and the back corner of my house - ill take the neighbors to the souths driveway and put my garage over there - its paved...lol all joking aside - whats the probability hes using this to try to do his survey - it seems to be showing exactly what he is saying...
The huge problem here
o plus while were at it do you think I can make him take care of the septic system that's in the backyard too? its on his property according to this...this is going to be a nightmare!
The huge problem here
Boundary line agreement. Don't let personal issues enter in. Otherwise you'll spend 10's of thousands, and may get less. I understand this can be difficult.
The huge problem here
I think were looking at a legal battle because this guy is going to run ramid with this - he's wanted this piece of property for 15 years...he thought it was his until he had the survey - his intent was to throw us off the property and move our fence - thus his reason for killing the cat /:
A Link To Barbara J. Drayer's Deed
33 not 32, I knew that, just can't type.
Paul in PA
The huge problem here
Can I just say thanks for hanging in here, Joannie and giving out some more information. It seems like most laypeople that wander in here can't understand being asked for more information.
I haven't looked at your deeds, but I'm sure more than a few surveyors are digging into it. Good luck.
The huge problem here
Hey thx for being here and taking an interest in this mess! Having a bit of real estate back ground and writing real estate secured loans (mostly Heil & HELOC type) I knew there were variables that would need to be disclosed. I know I have a fight ahead of me and I wanted advice from professionals - I expect to pay a hefty fee to get an accurate survey & just hope to clear this mess up that way / but believe me I am not delusional that it's a cake walk...thanks again to all for your professional advice & expertise - you guys (& girls) do rock!
The huge problem here
We as residence (at least those that have been here 30+ years) know the roads up here are not right - there was a lot of fussing with the township when they 'chip & tarred' the stone byways that passed as roads. They did no surveying just came along with those paving machines and did it as cheaply as possible - they did however widen some of the roads as a few were just single lanes at that time and of course there were property owners that moaned about that too! So for laurel to he out of whack-wouldn't be a doubt in my mind that it most definitely is...
Summarizing...
I wasn't able to see the GIS map on my iPad yesterday (flash)...
OMG!!!
1. It appears all the lot corners were supposed to have iron pins (the Deed descriptions I looked at are rough and call to iron pins). If those could be found or someone could give competent and admissable testimony under oath as to where they were then they would control unless the PA Trial Courts don't like huge discrepencies.
2. It's possible there was a lot line adjustment between 32 and 33 which would account for the big conflict between the record lot line and the fence. If we assume the Assessor's GIS reasonably reflects the record within 20'+/- then the street at least roughly fits its record location. If I was the property owner I would go to the Recorder's office (or whatever you call it in PA) and search the chain of title of both parcels back to their creation to see if there was a lot line adjustment where the owner of 33 granted 32 a triangle of land and it was subsequently forgotten about or missed by the Title Companies.
3. The south line also seems to go past the neighbor's garage but that is at least a smaller problem.
-Dave
I just read and/or scanned the post and all of the replies. I would highly advise to get a reputable land surveyor to survey your property. Hopefully get someone who is experienced in that area and in helping landowners resolve their conflicts.
You have several things going for you including a reliance on the property lines you have been enjoying for the past 33 years. Any evidence you can help the surveyor with to show where you have knowledge of property corners having been set at one time, in addition to any improvements you have built to the line would be helpful. You never know if they might find some additional corner monuments in the vicinity of where you think they should be through diligent searching, etc.
(Note that adverse possession is a tough row to hoe and is not guaranteed to win; nor is it cheap, but that might be something to show and negotiate with. Also the historic ownership might be more than an adverse claim, it might be evidence for a surveyor to hang his hat on as to the original property locations.)
In court you would need a lawyer, and/or to draft some legal documents; but if a land surveyor could help you nail down your area and work out some kind of agreements with your neighbors, it would save a great deal of money. Fighting a boundary in court could cost a great deal of money, and there is no guarantee that it will end in the way you would like it to. Usually, court battles are lost by everyone involved except the lawyers (and perhaps their expert witnesses).
Advice
Post everything you can here on this forum and these hound-dogs will hunt it down. We talk of expensive surveys and tricky situations, but give us a hint of a problem and we get very interested very fast.
I sincerely appreciate all the helpful advise you all have offered! If any if you are in my area or know a RELIABLE surveyor in my area - would really appreciate that too. In the process of contacting my RE Agent friends and asking for recommendations right now. I am sure we will end up having to get the survey done so I just want to start calling on them now - asking the questions you have suggested and perhaps choosing to get the ball rolling ASAP! Again - thanks so very much!
My advice is have a survey made for you. tell your surveyor everything and get copies of all these "surveys" if they even exist, Have you even seen the copies or are you relying on the neighbors word? Many times I get copies of supposed "surveys" which are nothing more than tax maps... and people hire some non-licensed person who sets "corners"..I dont believe any of it till I see the plat.
Here's the GIS image talked about above. I believe the property in question is 68-002-032 (SE corner of Birchwood and Laurel).
This is a situation where you have to hope the GIS is waaaaay out of whack, otherwise, there are going to be multiple problems in this neighborhood. This shows your driveway and garage over the line, and part of your pool. Your neighbor's garage and driveway on your property. And there are many other cases of lines running through houses and garages, etc, in the area shown.
Let us know how it works out.
And don't get mad
if your surveyor shows you what you don't want to see. Last conflict survey I did, I didn't know I was the 3rd surveyor to get involved with the project until after we had started. Neighbors fighting over 6 inches of space. My client was all sugar and spice until I reported that I agreed with the other two surveyors. Then it was as if I had unlocked the gates of hell. I was considering a restraining order. And yes, the lawsuits started flying. In my professional opinion the client did not have a leg to stand on and last I heard was still shopping for a surveyor to show the "correct" line. I deal in facts and it could be said that I work for the public good - not the client, not the adjoiner. Purchase of my services does not guarantee a favorable result if the facts show otherwise.
And don't get mad
:good:
1 thing is for sure - my garage to the south is not cut in half as this shows - this is where the original pins come in - one still there - one I saw being pulled by the neighbor back in 1989 - also - 1st survey agrees with where that pulled pin used to be because he used the only original pin still there
Some great advice here.
I can only speak for myself, but I would never accuse another surveyor of being flat out wrong, unless I felt I could prove it, in court, seven ways to Sunday, if I had to.
Talk to your back yard neighbor and find out who did that survey for them a few years ago. Contact that surveyor and explain your situation. DO NOT OVER REACT. GIS and tax maps are cartoons. You need a surveyor that has done work throughout your subdivision who is familiar with the issues unique to it. No surveyor will bet his reputation on a single pin or even just two. That is if he doesn't want to see his reputation ruined.
