Tom
Holy Cow,
Thanks, I did not follow that link. I missed that in my haste.
One more thing--in your first post you said a well-renowned local surveyor had agreed with your property lines as you understood them. In your place I would include that guy on the list of prospective surveyors.
If he ran the line or lines in that location, he certainly didn't do it on a whim. He had some field evidence or records or both that indicated it ought to be placed there.
You don't need to be concerned about hiring a surveyor who has also worked for your neighbors, even though you may not get along with the neighbors. A surveyor is required to be impartial, and to run the lines in the same place regardless of who's paying for it. That's the law, as laid down in many court decisions over the past 150 years or so.
My head is still spinning - so in this case it may be better to use the same guy? I just concluded it would be better to get a third opinion - but I see where you're coming from - my thought too was he had some evidence that provided him with placing these lines - also I know the work of the guy who hired him - he is meticulous & precise - I have no doubts about anyone who would work for him on a job having to be a perfectionist - I looked up the license of the office of the guy who was up here last week saying this first surveyor is wrong- tell me how this works - the license I found is not registered to him? The business owner is the license holder - is this normal or would this guy also need to be licensed?
As far as using or not using the renowned surveyor, all I meant to suggest was that you check out his qualifications and ask him about his knowledge and records of your area, along with anyone else you might be considering, and don't be put off because he worked for your neighbor.
As to licensure, I don't know the PA law. In Minnesota, it's legal for an unlicensed person to go out in the field, with his work being overseen by a licensed surveyor in the office. It's more common for that to happen in a larger firm where one licensed surveyor supervises several field crews, which again is legal in MN.
Holy Cow, in an earlier post, said in effect that it's better for the licensed surveyor to go out in the field. I also think that's a good idea in an area like this, although I've seen good work done either way.
I believe that if you ask for referrals, as you suggested, and talk to several prospective surveyors, you will begin to get an idea about which ones are best qualified for work in your area.
IF I were in your shoes...
I'd start where you started. With the SURVEYOR who believes, historically what you believe, or want to be true. I'd collect all his evidence. Then, I'd get his candid opinion, who to hire, (3rd surveyor) who would best represent this position. Maybe he has a mountain of evidence, that he, and only he has. Like an old field book, filled with notes, about the found monuments in that neighborhood.
I am saying this because it may be less expensive this way, to get evidence, to hold your old lines.
Another way to say it is to start with "People who are on your team already".
Especially, because they may have OLD and legitimate documents, that could be available. Whereas, the 3rd party surveyor, may never have these documents, at any price.
Remember, there are no surprises, to a properly prepared lawyer.
(The concept of the above statement, about the lawyer is saying BE PROPERLY PREPARED.) Make sure you are prepared. And that he is prepared.
I don't like surprises.
Nate
Good advice Nate.
Following this, it's clear to me an expert Boundary Surveyor is needed. So many are trained and swayed by the Engineer's number crunching style of surveying. Nobody reads what the Legal in the Deed is really conveying. So many Surveyors are in the Box crunching number values. They are loss in the realm of common law boundaries. What does the deed give? Has it been surveyed before? Where are the Foot Steps? What was the Intent? Who has Senior Rights?
Research....
Thru some extensive searching I found filed surveys online but no way to search thru the millions in dauphin county without a sur name or surveyors name to find the book/volume/page for any survey that may have been done in the past...I haven't looked at my title policy lately - but would that follow title back to the subdivision of the neighborhood?
Research....
Unfortunately, a title insurance policy contains very little information about the past. The old manner of abstracting recited the entire property from today back to day one, whenever day one was. Sadly, those days are gone. The title insurance company should have the entire history in their plant (as it is called) for your property and most every other nearby property. The courthouse has all the information, but, you need to really know what you are doing to do your own research that way.
The problem with approaching the title company who issued your policy is that they really only care about themselves and will do anything in their power to avoid having to pay out on a claim.
Research....
Admission - I'm anal and prbly still have my original title policy written in 1982 - I think it has the complete trail on it - I will have to check tho
Research....
You just might a Survey! Back in the day Title Co.'s wanted surveys to cover their butts.
Research....
So after all this fussing we have heard nothing from either surveyor? What's up with that!?
Lack of Surveyor Response
> So after all this fussing we have heard nothing from either surveyor? What's up with that!?
I've watched the discussion develop and you have received good advice. Many surveyors are unwilling to discuss prior surveys with anyone other than their original client. Some surveyors believe that such information is the either privileged communication between surveyor and client or proprietary knowledge created and owned by the surveyor.
Depending on the laws in your state either of these positions may be partially correct. Previous contracts are involved and may contain restrictions on the surveyor that go beyond state laws. However, the surveyor should reply in a professional manner. Even if this is only to say that he believes sharing the information would create a legal and/or ethical conflict.
Lack of Surveyor Response
PERHAPS go to original surveyor, and ask them to perform a survey of your land. Don't act like you know alot. Just ask them for a price, and how long it will take. You may learn stuff that way....
N
Research....
While I concur with what Mr. Morlan and Nate have stated, I would also add that the surveyors may have been specifically instructed by their client not to share the survey or any information about their survey with anyone.
Another possibility is that the surveyors know or suspect there are significant problems in that area and perhaps with their surveys, and therefore refrain from divulging anything that may be used against them.
Like Nate suggested, I would attempt to get a proposal from them and go from there.
The Best of Luck,