I'm in Montana. I have a client Ralph he's 80 years old. He's lived with Romona for 28 years. They never bothered to get married. Ralph wants to sell his property of 17 acres in two pieces, one 13 acres with an existing house, and a 4 acre hay meadow. His property is zoned agricultural so he can't use a Minor Subdivision to divide it. He can't use an Agricultural Exemption because it's less than 20 acres. The County says since they never married he can't use the Family Transfer exemption and deed it to Romona. They have no kids. Romona can't marry Ralph legally and retain a pension from a former marriage. Is this division of land dead? Any ideas?
Skeeter1996, post: 441286, member: 9224 wrote: I'm in Montana. I have a client Ralph he's 80 years old. He's lived with Romona for 28 years. They never bothered to get married. Ralph wants to sell his property of 17 acres in two pieces, one 13 acres with an existing house, and a 4 acre hay meadow. His property is zoned agricultural so he can't use a Minor Subdivision to divide it. He can't use an Agricultural Exemption because it's less than 20 acres. The County says since they never married he can't use the Family Transfer exemption and deed it to Romona. They have no kids. Romona can't marry Ralph legally and retain a pension from a former marriage. Is this division of land dead? Any ideas?
Rezone it.
Tell the county they can't get married because they're cousins.
What county?
Rankin_File, post: 441342, member: 101 wrote: What county?
Cascade County.
Doesn't Common Law marriage exist in Montana?
Skeeter1996, post: 441286, member: 9224 wrote: I'm in Montana. I have a client Ralph he's 80 years old. He's lived with Romona for 28 years. They never bothered to get married. Ralph wants to sell his property of 17 acres in two pieces, one 13 acres with an existing house, and a 4 acre hay meadow. His property is zoned agricultural so he can't use a Minor Subdivision to divide it. He can't use an Agricultural Exemption because it's less than 20 acres. The County says since they never married he can't use the Family Transfer exemption and deed it to Romona. They have no kids. Romona can't marry Ralph legally and retain a pension from a former marriage. Is this division of land dead? Any ideas?
No. Sounds like you're trying to find a way to not do a subdivision plat. Just plat the thing into two lots. He loses an ag exemption and can then "sell" to Ramona whatever he chooses for whatever the cost they agree to is.
Sometimes you can't get around the subdivision plat.
foggyidea, post: 441408, member: 155 wrote: Doesn't Common Law marriage exist in Montana?
If they've never claimed to be husband and wife, or presented themselves as married for legal issues, they probably can't be considered to be married by common law. The fact that she receives a pension based on not being married, would affirm that they weren't married I would think
Kris Morgan, post: 441420, member: 29 wrote: No. Sounds like you're trying to find a way to not do a subdivision plat. Just plat the thing into two lots. He loses an ag exemption and can then "sell" to Ramona whatever he chooses for whatever the cost they agree to is.
Sometimes you can't get around the subdivision plat.
No, County Planner says because it's zoned agricultural the subdivision lots can not be less than 20 acres.
Marriage is out of the question. Romona doesn't want to lose her pension.
I think rezoning could be the answer.
Surely Montana isn't so backwards that platting the tract wouldn't pragmatically remove the ag exemption. Even in PoDunk rural East Texas it works like that. If it is in fact that way, then ask for a rezoning but expect a buttload of hoops to jump through. Rezoning in Texas is a VERY specific process.
We're fortunate in San Joaquin County to have an Ordinance which provides for homesite parcels ranging from 2 to 5 acres within AG-40 zoning.
Warren Smith, post: 441447, member: 9900 wrote: We're fortunate in San Joaquin County to have an Ordinance which provides for homesite parcels ranging from 2 to 5 acres within AG-40 zoning.
County Planner says rezoning is not an option. It would be viewed as Spot Zoning. I'm researching the Common Law Marriage angle, but it could be a dead end because it could jepordize Ramona's pension. Adoption has also been suggested, but Ralph is in his 80's, I doubt he has that much time left.
Skeeter1996, post: 441544, member: 9224 wrote: County Planner says rezoning is not an option. It would be viewed as Spot Zoning. I'm researching the Common Law Marriage angle, but it could be a dead end because it could jepordize Ramona's pension. Adoption has also been suggested, but Ralph is in his 80's, I doubt he has that much time left.
Ugh. Very frustrating. Keep us posted.
In North Carolina, there are Statutory exemptions from a local jurisdiction's right to govern subdivisions. Only three, they seem to protect a landowner's rights in the face of restrictive zoning requirements that may not have been in place when the parcel was initially created.
These exemptions aren't trumpeted by the folks working in Town/ County offices. It may be worth researching your State law.
I don't see it happening, there is no way to create a tract under the zoning requirements without one of the exemptions. You can't do a subdivision without rezoning, you can't split off less that the allowed acreages. Where I am they even disregard some of the exemptions, the attorney general came out with a ruling saying zoning overrides the statutory exemptions. Unless you are in a comprehensive rezoning area you are basically out of luck rezoning anything.
Most jurisdictions have a variance process. They generally require some unique circumstance. The outcome varies drsmatically..
MightyMoe, post: 441841, member: 700 wrote: I don't see it happening, there is no way to create a tract under the zoning requirements without one of the exemptions. You can't do a subdivision without rezoning, you can't split off less that the allowed acreages. Where I am they even disregard some of the exemptions, the attorney general came out with a ruling saying zoning overrides the statutory exemptions. Unless you are in a comprehensive rezoning area you are basically out of luck rezoning anything.
That is disappointing to read.
If he is trying to let her keep the house and 13 Acres this might be a solution, sell the entire tract but retain a life time estate in the house and 13 Acres for Ramona and himself.
thebionicman, post: 441846, member: 8136 wrote: Most jurisdictions have a variance process. They generally require some unique circumstance. The outcome varies drsmatically..
That is the one out I can think of, you would need to weigh the pros and cons of spending the upfront money for something that probably won't happen, I had the best luck with those getting an attorney involved who knows the ins and outs to write a letter. But it's probably less than 50/50. The county commission can override all the rules so you will end up there in front of them with a sob story......
Hi
thebionicman, post: 441846, member: 8136 wrote: Most jurisdictions have a variance process. They generally require some unique circumstance. The outcome varies drsmatically..
[SARCASM][/SARCASM]Actually a repected Attorney in Real Estate matter just told me that common law marriage do exist and are recognized in Montana. One stickler is that the couple has to hold themselves out as being married. Ralph and Ramon's maybe viewed as not doing that to preserve Ramona's pension.
ThanksE="foggyidea, post: 441408, member: 155"]Doesn't Common Law marriage exist in Montana?
