LowBallers

I lived in Mason County for several years. There were 2 I remember. "The Woodsman" but he went to work for the City of Bremerton and claimed he stopped. He would survey the properties with total station etc. for $500. I ran across his work and it was within a few feet (get what you pay for). I can't remember the other guys name. The problem there is the residents like the cheap surveys and protect them. Saying the Licensed guy's are ripping them off. I got tired of trying to tell them the difference. I reported both these clowns to the Board with no results in the early 2000's. I understand they were given a little more power in these matters since.

Curious who was complaining. I probably know them.

They were both unlicensed by the way.

Ive always wondered what constitutes a lowballer. Our company charges $5000/day or over on some scanning projects. Does this make the other 95% that dont charge this amount a lowballer?

I do not see a letter getting through to these folks. Take the extreme; contact one of those companies who prepares nothing but mortgage plot plans for $140 each. This price has been set over the years by lowballers and attorneys. They have their business model and I'm sure they'd file any such letter in the circular cabinet.

> Is it worth the effort? Will the lowballer recognize the error in their ways? will they care?
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> What do you think?

I don't think, I know, that will be a total waste of time.

Turn unlicensed pin finder in to the board. Or have your local society chapter file a civil suit against him.

Stephen

Not sure it's the guy from Mason, but I've run into a guy three times in my area in the last couple years and twice in the last six months. Twice he had the sense to tell his client to call me because what he was finding didn't make sense.

He offers himself out as a "Corner Locator" vice a surveyor. I cannot provide a similar service as I am licensed and have liability if I "locate" something. He has no liability. The thing is, he is not just locating existing markers of record. He is also marking other positions based on his locating. At best he may be within several feet.

For the most recent effort {just last week) He got paid $500 and spent 5 days trying to figure out where things were. It took me about 3 hours field and an hour of setup to get it marked correctly for the client for about double what he got paid. So she paid half again what she needed to by trying to get off cheap. And the thing is, it involves a jointly used boat ramp. Any info gleaned from the other guy would have been useless. Now she will have a recorded survey showing the situation on the ground.

Just not sure what people are thinking when they hire this guy for something like this. I can understand a bit when like another client, he hired the guy just to get an idea of where things are, but swears that he always follows up with a licensed survey. Un-huh...Sure. I was happy to do the 2 surveys for him though and he was happy to pay, so I was not to hard on the client.

The thing is that people get this guys info from real estate agents for the most part, and they should know better. They are the ones that need to get the letters.

Oh and Mark, you do know the complainer. It was my brother.

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>
> Is it worth the effort? Will the lowballer recognize the error in their ways? will they care?
>
> What do you think?
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Providing a service in an efficient and profitable way is the American way.

I sugest that is what a 'lowballer' is

I call it yankee thrift

For the purposes of this discussion, I don't see "lowballer" to be equal to "unlicensed practitioner".

An unlicensed practitioner may cease once notified that the local chapter is aware and ready to prosecute. A licensed practitioner is not obligated to change his business plan, obviously, so a letter may not have much effect.

Rick

> A guy was at our chapter meeting Tuesday night, complaining about an unlicensed guy in Mason County offering his magnetic location skills for $500.

You don't know how good you got it out there; your unlicensed jack-legs are charging more than some "professional land surveyors" around here 🙁

Rather than a letter for lowballers, what about for clients?

I haven't heard of any unlicensed practice in this area, and I find my biggest competition isn't from other surveyors, it's from homeowners expectations of what a survey should cost.

Google "What should a survey cost" and you will find people online saying that property lines should cost no more than about $100 (because they are so easy to do). If you want topo with that, it would add another $100.

I would guess the reason for this is ignorance and possibly the fact that every time someone purchases a house, they see the line item in their closing costs for a "survey" for $200 or so.

I've sent out out dozens of proposals for residential surveys in the last year or so; very few come back. When I drive by the ones that don't hire me, I invariably see that they never had the work done. Apparently they thought a survey would be much less expensive, and decided not to proceed.

Maybe we could come up with some kind of letter to send out to potential clients, either with a proposal, or on our websites or brochures.

-Jeff

I thought so. Thanks for giving me my first Surveying Job back in 94. Hope you guys are finding some work.

So, is it okay (ie: legal) for a non-licensed survey to offer their "location skills"? Is it okay for someone to go around to apparent corner locations and see if they can recover the steel in the ground? Especially if they tell the client, that the actual corner would have to be determined by a land surveyor.

If it is okay for a non-surveyor to do that, is it okay for a licensed surveyor to do that?

Is that "lowballing" if it is not represented as a land survey and if the person doing it even makes it clear that he is only finding steel and says that they haven't determined the corners?

To me, if the person offers to do a land survey and then does something that does not meet all the statute standards and necessary work to actually to the job they are offering at a much reduced rate is lowballing.

So, is it okay (ie: legal) for a non-licensed survey to offer their "location skills"? Is it okay for someone to go around to apparent corner locations and see if they can recover the steel in the ground? Especially if they tell the client, that the actual corner would have to be determined by a land surveyor.

At least here apparently it is OK. One such person was taken to court for practicing w/o a license and once he stopped doing anything except finding existing metal, there was nothing they could do to him. My problem is I keep finding were they are still marking out "probable" corner positions.

If it is okay for a non-surveyor to do that, is it okay for a licensed surveyor to do that?

No, it is not OK. Because I have a license, the public has a right to certain expectations. No matter how many times I may tell them that without further work I cannot be sure the marker is in the correct position and not to rely on it, because I am licensed, if someone does rely on it and it is not correct, then I can be held liable. At least this is what the courts here have said.

Is that "lowballing" if it is not represented as a land survey and if the person doing it even makes it clear that he is only finding steel and says that they haven't determined the corners?

No, it is not "lowballing", but see my other remarks about them not being able to resist going beyond simple locating. I think this is also a bit beside the point. We know that what these people really want is to know where their property corners are, but don't want to pay what that really costs, so their real estate agent gives them a number for a guy they "know of" who can help them.

True, there are some instances when someone calls and had a survey performed by this company many years ago and just wants the corners re-found, but this is not common and generally not as easy as it seems.

To me, if the person offers to do a land survey and then does something that does not meet all the statute standards and necessary work to actually to the job they are offering at a much reduced rate is lowballing.

To me, lowballing is offering to do the work at a rate which is un-sustainable, that is, at a rate that does not pay the bills, but that just gets them out in the field and some money in the door. It is someone that just says "Hey, I'll do it for x amount less than any other bid you get". I'd even consider corner hopping to be a form of "low-balling".

I have been provided third or fourth hand info

that there is a similar unlicensed individual who visited real estate offices in the area and offered to "locate corners and flag lines". The bad thing is a local licensee's father is one of the real estate offices the unlicensed guy visited. The licensee's father did not even worry about it enough as to even get the guys name and number. I bet if he was selling property without a broker's license, that same realtor would be up in arms over it.

I have been trying to find information on who it is as it is a violation in Kentucky that the board would follow up on. They prosecute many cases of unlicensed practice per year here in Kentucky.

As to letters to "lowballers", my opinion is that the amount charged by another is not something that other licensees should have any say in even as a collective. If the "lowballer" is not working to the standards, then a letter should be sent, but it should be to the board for disciplinary action.