AI Assistant
Notifications
Clear all

Limit of Liability

25 Posts
13 Users
0 Reactions
1,517 Views
RADAR
(@dougie)
Posts: 7880
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

I have a clause in my contract that limits my liability to $5000 or the fee, which ever is greater. I have a client that is worried about cutting trees, based on the line I'm going to stake for him and potentially being sued by the adjoiner, if my line is in the wrong place. The proposed cost to survey this property is $2,900.

Do any of you have this kind of clause in your contract?

How would you handle this if it was your client?

Thanks,
Doug


 
Posted : December 21, 2010 10:56 am
Keith Luttrell
(@keith-luttrell)
Posts: 99
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

I've seen this one not too long ago....

If this Letter of Engagement is executed, the Client agrees to limit the Surveyor’s liability to the Client and others, due to the Surveyor’s negligent acts, errors or omissions, such that the total aggregate liability of the Surveyor shall not exceed $50,000 or the total of Surveyor’s fees for services rendered on this project, whichever is less.

Use at your own risk.


 
Posted : December 21, 2010 11:06 am
RADAR
(@dougie)
Posts: 7880
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Basically, that is what my contract says. What I'm trying to do, is assure my client that he has nothing to worry about. My surveys are bullet proof and this is a non-issue:-)


 
Posted : December 21, 2010 11:18 am
jbstahl
(@jbstahl)
Posts: 1342
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

I'd be looking to get permission from the adjoiner to avoid the issue entirely.

JBS

PS Limitation of Liability clauses are best when there is an open blank which is filled in with a negotiated amount and initialed by yourself and the client.


 
Posted : December 21, 2010 11:55 am
Keith Luttrell
(@keith-luttrell)
Posts: 99
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Tell him your surveys are bullet proof and this is a non-issue. and you understand his concerns and will be diligent in your efforts not to mis-stake the line


 
Posted : December 21, 2010 12:00 pm

foggyidea
(@foggyidea)
Posts: 3462
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Doug, good luck trying to limit your liability. I don't think that works.

However, if you are not negligent in your survey then you shouldn't have any exposure to financial damage's..


 
Posted : December 21, 2010 12:18 pm
bill93
(@bill93)
Posts: 9977
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

If that worked, it would save the cost of E&O insurance. Giving back the fee on a one or two jobs during your career would be cheap insurance.

But you need to research several issues.
-Does the BOR have a position on this?

-Do the courts allow a professional to disclaim liability (protecting the public)

-Will knowledgeable clients use your services or go to someone that they know they can recover serious damages from?


 
Posted : December 21, 2010 12:36 pm
Perry Williams
(@perry-williams)
Posts: 2183
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

I hire a surveyor to tell me where my lines are so I can construct a $150,000 house. What good is the survey if the surveyor doesn't stand behind his work?


 
Posted : December 21, 2010 12:58 pm
RADAR
(@dougie)
Posts: 7880
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

> I hire a surveyor to tell me where my lines are so I can construct a $150,000 house. What good is the survey if the surveyor doesn't stand behind his work?

What was the cost of the survey?

You hire a doctor to diagnose your earache. What good is the diagnosis if the doctor doesn't stand behind it?

What did the 2 or 3 doctors visits and medication cost?


 
Posted : December 21, 2010 1:03 pm
Perry Williams
(@perry-williams)
Posts: 2183
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

If the Ford Garage puts a new water pump in my car for $200, and it ends up destroying the $2000 engine because they made a mistake, the Ford garage will fix my engine without charge even though the cost greatly exceeds $200.

I certainly wouldn't knowingly hire a surveyor who limited his liability to the cost of the survey.


 
Posted : December 21, 2010 1:17 pm

RADAR
(@dougie)
Posts: 7880
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

> If the Ford Garage puts a new water pump in my car for $200, and it ends up destroying the $2000 engine because they made a mistake, the Ford garage will fix my engine without charge even though the cost greatly exceeds $200.

That's a good point, thank you.

I was thinking more about professional service and not about technicians installing parts on my car. As always, you get what you pay for.


 
Posted : December 21, 2010 1:25 pm
butch
(@butch)
Posts: 442
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

> Basically, that is what my contract says. What I'm trying to do, is assure my client that he has nothing to worry about. My surveys are bullet proof and this is a non-issue:-)

I'm not sure the two can be inclusive i.e, you want limit of liability statement (incredibly low i might add) but want to assure your client he has nothing to worry about? As was already stated, good luck with that! If I was the client, who apparently has reason to be nervous about his neighbor, I sure wouldn't be comfortable with that in the contract at all...no matter how bulletproof you claim your work to be


 
Posted : December 21, 2010 1:52 pm
jud
 jud
(@jud)
Posts: 1918
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Sounds like your client is the type that would file a suit at the drop of a hat and believes everyone is just like him. Don't think your clause will be of much help and defending yourself could be costly. Were it me, I would suggest that he employ another surveyor without the clause, it would be in his best interest by not having to worry about the $5000 limit which may or may not hold and you would not have to worry about something out of left field.
jud


 
Posted : December 21, 2010 1:55 pm
roadhand
(@roadhand)
Posts: 1501
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Tell him to cut the trees 1' inside your line. If he was really dapper he would convince the neighbor that all of the remaining trees in that one foot strip is his and that they are over the line, then sue him.


 
Posted : December 21, 2010 2:06 pm
RADAR
(@dougie)
Posts: 7880
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

> 1.6. Limitation of Liability. The Client agrees, to the fullest extent permitted by law, to limit the liability of CLS to the Client for any and all claims, losses, costs, damages of any nature whatsoever or claims expenses from any cause or causes, including attorney’s fees and costs and expert-witness fees and costs, so the total aggregate liability of CLS to the Client shall not exceed $5,000, or CLS’ fee for services rendered on this project, whichever is greater. It is intended that the limitation apply to any and all liability or cause of action however alleged or arising, unless otherwise prohibited by law.

That is the clause in my contract.

I told the client that my intent was to discourage frivolous lawsuits and that if there was a problem with my survey, at the very least, he could file a complaint with the state board, regardless of what it said in my contract. I told him I would be diligent in my efforts to stake his property line to the standard of care as outlined in the state statutes and that if he was uncomfortable, I would remove the clause from the contract.

I removed the clause, he signed the contract and I start tomorrow! 😀

Thanks again for all of your input, is this a great board or what!

Douglas


 
Posted : December 21, 2010 2:39 pm

butch
(@butch)
Posts: 442
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Congrats! a helluva lot better resolution than telling him to employ some other surveyor as was suggested above


 
Posted : December 21, 2010 3:35 pm
sicilian-cowboy
(@sicilian-cowboy)
Posts: 1602
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Good luck.

I doubt that any court would uphold such a clause if you were negligent.

You can't just wish away your professional responsibility with a clause in a contract......the state gives you a license so just such a clause will not be necessary.

And, if I were the client, that clause would be a good reason not to use your services.


 
Posted : December 21, 2010 4:08 pm
RADAR
(@dougie)
Posts: 7880
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Thank you for the input Angelo, I appreciate it.

Like I said, my intent was to discourage frivolous lawsuits, what would you do?

Doug


 
Posted : December 21, 2010 4:18 pm
sicilian-cowboy
(@sicilian-cowboy)
Posts: 1602
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

I am guessing that a client who has an inclination to sue is going to do so no matter what is in the contract.

You cannot avoid what you cannot control......I approach each project as if I am going to do the best I can, and CYA as well, and if something happens, I can only deal with it as it comes.

If you find this works as a preventative measure, (i.e., it will scare away a "sue-happy" client), well, have at it. But, as I said, once a lawsuit is started, I doubt it will hold up.

Every once in a while, I see an old survey (usually in Manhattan or Brooklyn, from the 1920's through 1930's) with a note on it that states the "damages will be limited to the fee charged for the survey". Don't see those anymore......again, my guess is they don't hold water.

Good luck with your somewhat happier client......:-)


 
Posted : December 21, 2010 4:26 pm
Joe the Surveyor
(@joe-the-surveyor)
Posts: 1932
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

I disagree with Angelo, we have a limit cause in every contract for the past 15 years.
But to each their own.


 
Posted : December 21, 2010 8:28 pm

Page 1 / 2