I agree, that kind of stuff gives surveying a bad tarnish. Unsupervised hourly crews in a hurry are a bad idea regardless of the contract arrangements.
Depends greatly on how the crew's data is being reported. Are they giving you coordinates or raw data? What specific instructions do they have for quality control, how to know when they have done the job right and can pack up and leave? Is their equipment calibrated? How do they know? How do you know?
The answer to this is pretty much, least squares. You have raw data & an LSA analysis in the file, no question, you supervised the crew better than most. You and the crew can agree on an error spec, and they can QC their work with the same least squares before they turn it in. If a crew is not learning from the data they are collecting, they are not supervised, regardless of the contract arrangements.
You and the crew can also estimate jobs together. What works for us (when there is work) is to give the boss a lump sum estimate of field time, from which, he bids the job. Note that everything is lump sum, so we win a few we lose a few, and when we are slow we learn something. But so far there has been no reason to hurry.
A good contract crew also has to make sure that their talents are being used for good and not evil. So they go to state association meetings, learn standards of care, ask a lot of questions, etc. Doubt your hourly half-day hurry-up crew does that. Regardless of the contract arrangements.
I do know a couple of the local contract crews, and honestly...they are good and detailed, I have worked with a few of them in the past.
Anyways...interesting discussion here...some good points both ways. I think the key thing is that if you know and trust the judgment of someone in the field, it shouldn't matter if they are a contractor or an employee. You just have to know and trust that the person will do the work to your standards.
Tom
I subbed a good bit last year, never made any money doing it but paid for gas and kept my hand in in land surveying, which to me was worth the loss of income. Thankfully a few big engineering topo jobs floated me through most of the summer and into the fall.
I charged a percentage of the job, usually 15%. That covered my equipment, vehicle and time, with expendables and fuel provided by the contractor. Some had issues with filling my tank for one day's work, said no problem and went home that day. If lot and block work, required at least three for the day in order that everyone at least had a chance to make money.
And yes, spent a couple days on a few that netted me 45 bucks, the job is done when the job is done and I was as willing to take a risk as the guy who called me.
I know its been said before...as well as again...
> I subbed a good bit last year..
There is a big difference between being a subcontractor, a 1099 contractor, and an employee.
Subcontractors are legitimate businesses with FED ID numbers and likely their own employees, their own equipment, and most certainly their own insurance and associated liability.
Employees work for people under somebodies supervision, when they are told to be on the job, and usually with the company equipment. Many other things define employee in the eyes of the IRS. Read up!
1099 contractors are walking a fine line between the two, no matter how they try and rationalize it. It all starts after $600. Especially if working under their SSN and not a FIN. I think for a surveying firm to 1099 a PC or I-man is asking for huge problems, and so are the helpers (especially if drawing unemployment from somebody else). To 1099 a bookeeper with other clients, or a CAD guy working out of his house with his own software and other clients, is not so exposed but who even knows about that.
As I understand things, Obozocare is really going to bollex things up even more.
I know its been said before...as well as again...
I guess I should be more specific and say I was a 1099 subcontractor. I checked into what the State Board had to say and the liability was the same whether I was a full time employee of the company, 1099 subcontractor, or volunteer. The person who signs the plat accepts the responsibility, period.
>
> You and the crew can also estimate jobs together. What works for us (when there is work) is to give the boss a lump sum estimate of field time, from which, he bids the job. Note that everything is lump sum, so we win a few we lose a few, and when we are slow we learn something. But so far there has been no reason to hurry.
>
> A good contract crew also has to make sure that their talents are being used for good and not evil. So they go to state association meetings, learn standards of care, ask a lot of questions, etc. Doubt your hourly half-day hurry-up crew does that. Regardless of the contract arrangements.
Are you serious???
Is this a stand alone business?? If they go to State Association Meetings, why don't they go out an get Licensed??
It's not something that's done around here much, I'm pretty interested in hearing how this works.
Ralph
It is a stand alone business, know three old school PC's that do this full time. When the state required a college degree (can be in history, polysci, literature, etc., not necessarily a hard science degree) it created a vacuum for competent field crews. A few smart guys saw the hole in the system and adapted to fill it.
Found multiple question marks of incredulity. Duly noted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance#Argument_from_incredulity.2FLack_of_imagination
> Found multiple question marks of incredulity. Duly noted.
>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance#Argument_from_incredulity.2FLack_of_imaginationbr >
Is that your answer??
> It is a stand alone business, know three old school PC's that do this full time. When the state required a college degree (can be in history, polysci, literature, etc., not necessarily a hard science degree) it created a vacuum for competent field crews. A few smart guys saw the hole in the system and adapted to fill it.
Thanks PL
Since it is a stand alone business, in the scenario above where they are participating in the bidding, mobilization and other logistical components of the project, any endeavor which they choose to undertake should be considered a "Joint Venture".
Ralph