Last night I was listening to our county commission meeting. There is a controversial project. The county is trying to build a 50 acre lake by damming up a navigable creek. Someone asked how much we were paying the engineering firm for all the preliminary studies. No base flood or floodways are established. The County Executive (full time elected chairman, snake oil salesman) said we aren??t paying them anything. They are doing it pro bono with the hopes they get the bid on the final design. Just the cost of the land is roughly 1/2 million dollars. So my question is it ethical for them to do all this work for free with the hopes of getting it? Doesn??t this give them an unfair advantage when the select the firm for the design? I tried to find it in the GA code but couldn??t. This is like a mortgage loan survey you don??t get paid on because the deal fell through. I don??t see how they can do this.
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Interesting question.
I would say no, there is no conflict or ethical issues here.
Doing work for free in hopes of getting more is simple advertising... kinda like doing some research to prepare a proposal.
as far as getting paid on closing, if it closes, is nearly the same in my mind... a business decision. (ignore the thought that you might be seen as having bias effecting your determinations, that is silly scaredy cat stuff)
Sounds like the old bait and switch deal, "we will do the first project for free and bill all your future projects at our normal price".
Of course that normal price is not being revealed at this time and the important thing is to get the contract signed first.
I know of firms in?ÿNC that employee or partner with grant writers. They identify infrastructure?ÿneeds in rural communities, locate funding mechanisms and, drive the grant writing process. I'm not sure how it passes whatever level of scrutiny a particular individual wishes to put the process under; however, it does happen.
Perhaps if it is "qualifications" based selection, it's hard to be more "qualified" than the people who procured the grant. Maybe that's what you're driving at?
I?ÿknow of one firm that plays the "grant" angle and actually holds construction staking out of the completed bid documents (for themselves). If you review the bill of materials issued in the RFQ, the line item for surveying will be noted with instructions to exclude.
Theory: Grant procurement, being somewhat altruistic in nature, does not have any statutory moral compass and the issuing bodies are fundamentally charged with awarding based on the merit of any individual proposal. At some level, if the identified "need" is not pure bovine feces, where does that leave the process? Hell, how many "roads to nowhere" have been built with pure tax dollars? Probably all 50 DOT boards would uncomfortably shift in their seats if you asked that question during the annual conference.?ÿ
Ethics not considered, probably good work if you can get it. On the other hand, I bet it sucks when the funds don't materialize.
I would say 100% yes.?ÿ It is unethical.?ÿ Why did the county choose abc engineer??ÿ What if abc-123 engineer just comes in and starts doing the same work....but better.?ÿ If there is no contract, and i can't imagine in this situation that there is, it is also incredible dangerous for the county and engineer.?ÿ What if something goes wrong(it never does...right), what is he mis-calculated something during his 'free work' that was used downstream by someone else? What if it harms the public.?ÿ?ÿ
I could go on and on but it is definitely unethical, if not illegal and against state code in numerous states.
Some States began outlawing the practice in the 90s. Missouri is one for sure. Others did so indirectly. Not sure on Georgia as I left there in the early 80s...
Bro bono work for a community recreational project is perfectly OK, but should be contingent that if work goes out to bids, all bidders are on equal footing. That includes the pro bono designer could not withhold any CAD work from other bidders. I have done pro bono work for churches and youth recreation associations. Look up the word "eleemosynary".
The no free work applies to regular and commercial customers.
Some times for tax purposes you bill the work, receive a check and then return the check amount. My free work has been free, I did it because I wanted to, not for a tax write off. I have had free work followed by other firms contracting on it and never felt slighted. At times I have helped other firms with their projects, but sometimes could not due to their insurance company requirements. In some cases it was necessary for a company to pay me to assist in work they are doing for free. It is important that that understanding precedes any such work. For E&O purposes it is sometimes necessary to add the free work amount to your receivables.
At minimum a?ÿletter of understanding is required if not in fact an actual, "no fee" contract.
Paul in PA
Last night I was listening to our county commission meeting. There is a controversial project. The county is trying to build a 50 acre lake by damming up a navigable creek. Someone asked how much we were paying the engineering firm for all the preliminary studies. No base flood or floodways are established. The County Executive (full time elected chairman, snake oil salesman) said we aren??t paying them anything. They are doing it pro bono with the hopes they get the bid on the final design. Just the cost of the land is roughly 1/2 million dollars. So my question is it ethical for them to do all this work for free with the hopes of getting it? Doesn??t this give them an unfair advantage when the select the firm for the design? I tried to find it in the GA code but couldn??t. This is like a mortgage loan survey you don??t get paid on because the deal fell through. I don??t see how they can do this.
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????is it ethical for them to do all this work for free with the hopes of getting it??
Yes, but the ??good ??ol Boy??s? theory, still obviously prevalent, don??t pay any attention to ethics or morals.
????Doesn??t this give them an unfair advantage when the select the firm for the design??
What do you think??ÿ ??ÿ
I do not know if it is against the board rules but my gut tells me that it probably is to do something on a contingency. I've thought of these scenarios and have felt that if you offer this you end up getting in very deep financially and because you have a vested interest in the job, in that you are coming out of your own pocket, then you will most likely do whatever is called for to get the job when it is finally released for bid. It becomes a situation of "we gotta get that job at all costs".
I always felt like those P.O.S. mortgage surveys from years ago where if it did not close you did not get paid where illegal. I cannot think of any better example of a situation where the surveyor would be loath to screw up a closing, even leaving off encroachments and any other item that may put the whammy on a closing deal.
This engineer would seem to be running afoul and maybe he has an inside source that is giving him a wink and nod but if other firms are bidding on this I would definitely bring that to public attention during the bid process. I might even be inclined to find out if someone in the engineering company has a close relationship, familial or maybe a bed buddy with someone at City Hall.
I don't see anything wrong with it, unless of course you don't think your local government can be unbiased.?ÿ Which, based on track records of governments and politicians is probably a legit concern.