FCC Licensing for External Radios (and walke talkies?)

We were always very happy with Atlas License Company & Data Services (www.alcds.com).

Their web site has the forms you need to fill out, and they can provide knowledgeable guidance about your particular situation.

GB

Enterprise Wireless Alliance was pretty good to work with. They send you a couple of applications that don't make sense. Call them an speak to a rep and they can walk you through pretty painlessly. I ended up only getting 5 frequencies (I've only used 2 in all the time I've used RTK). The cost was much less than I thought it would be and was pretty painless... once we called the rep to help with the application.

I also requested a 70-watt ERP. If you are using a 35-watt radio with a 5-dB gain antenna, you are running 70-watt ERP (effective radiated power). It cost nothing extra to do this. Also, I licensed 10 devices, even though I'm not currently using that many. It didn't cost any extra to license 10.

I used http://nationalicense.com/&apos ;">National License when I got my Motorola handhelds in 2007. At the time, it cost me $475. When I got a 35-watt RTK radio in 2014 I used them again to modify my license, and that time the charge was $360. Both seemed reasonable to me. They got me the 70-watt ERP authorization without my asking (which I wouldn't have done because I didn't know it was an option at the time).

Your GPS license will be for frequencies in the 450 - 470 MHz band, the rest of it is allocated to other purposes. If they license your handhelds in the same band it may be different frequencies, I don't know the answer to that, but as long as you keep them well clear of each other (freq.-wise) it shouldn't be a problem. You can potentially have a problem with a harmonic; the way I would test, with Pac Crests anyhow, would be to have someone at least 200' away key the handheld and make sure that the Rx light on the data radio didn't come on.

All of the GPS data radio licenses I've seen were for frequencies in the 460 - 465 MHz range, I would think that your voice radio frequencies would be somewhere else in the 450 - 470 MHz spectrum.

UHF and VHF have differing performance and ranges, in addition this goes through a frequency coordinator, very unlikely that you would get UHF voice gear in the same frequencies as UHF data radios. I believe everyone in the USA gets the same 16 frequencies for the data radios and you may have some limited choice on voice frequencies, BUT those are more congested, thus the frequency coordination. I actually ditched UHF data radios in favor of 900 Mhz spread spectrum and honestly, the range with that at 1w is as good as anything I ever got out of a 35W data radio from Pacific Crest and I had a couple over the years. Line of sight hilltop to hilltop I have received RTK signal from my 900 Mhz out to 8.8 miles so far, that is about 3 miles further than I ever got with the PDL's in similar conditions. No FCC license required and no interference. Still have 16 UHF frequencies licensed in the business, BUT haven't used them in about four years.

I self learned a lot about radios out of necessity over the years and then last year studied and got my amatuer lincese, N7SHG, wished I had done that years before, a lot of stuff becomes a lot more clear after studying and playing with radios and rubbing shoulders with others on the hobby side for the last year.

I went through a company back east the 1st time or two on my business license, I think they may have retired, the last time for the narrow banding license update, I just went through my local Motorola dealer, they have a guy who does that stuff full time. I forgot what they charged, BUT well worth it unless you have a lot of time and patience!

SHG

Shelby H. Griggs PLS, post: 411761, member: 335 wrote: UHF and VHF have differing performance and ranges

Can one get licensed for VHF, for either voice or data? It seems to me that would be the way to go.

I have never seen any data gear in the VHF arena and I don't know if anybody makes any? That would be a frequency coordinator issue, it might be possible in a particular area, BUT the radio spectrum is finite and a precious commodity, so might be separated for good reason. I know in the amatuer world, there are virtually ZERO repeater frequency pairs available at all on the VHF side, many new repeaters, especially for the DMR networks are predominantly UHF.

SHG

I am guessing it is no coincidence that Atlas and National are both in Indiana about 6 miles apart? Was just looking both up to get a quote on modifying my license, 3.8 million square miles in the USA and these two firms can practically yell at each other!

SHG

Shelby H. Griggs PLS, post: 413346, member: 335 wrote: I am guessing it is no coincidence that Atlas and National are both in Indiana about 6 miles apart? Was just looking both up to get a quote on modifying my license, 3.8 million square miles in the USA and these two firms can practically yell at each other!

SHG

I think it is easier than they let on. When I flew to Canada last year I had to get a "restricted radiotelephone operators permit" for myself and also a "radio station license" for the plane. Pretty easy to do online with the FCC. Of course I didn't need it, but that was on the list of "required" items, no one asked for any of it.

John Hamilton, post: 413348, member: 640 wrote: I think it is easier than they let on.

Probably easy once you learn the ins and outs, but I took a stab at doing my own license when I got my handhelds, and gave up after an hour or so of wading through forms and statutes and web pages trying to understand the process. I never found the secret decoder ring, and finally decided to pay someone who had one to do it for me.

I'm a pretty persistent do-it-yourselfer, so when I admit defeat it usually means the process really isn't easy.

Shelby H. Griggs PLS, post: 413346, member: 335 wrote: I am guessing it is no coincidence that Atlas and National are both in Indiana about 6 miles apart? Was just looking both up to get a quote on modifying my license, 3.8 million square miles in the USA and these two firms can practically yell at each other!

SHG

Shelby: and it was probably just one company, then someone decided to leave and go into competition. Surprising that the cost is not lower being that there apparently is competition. Maybe they have "agreed" not to lower prices, or maybe there is enough work to keep them both happy.

Jim Frame, post: 413355, member: 10 wrote: Probably easy once you learn the ins and outs, but I took a stab at doing my own license when I got my handhelds, and gave up after an hour or so of wading through forms and statutes and web pages trying to understand the process. I never found the secret decoder ring, and finally decided to pay someone who had one to do it for me.

I'm a pretty persistent do-it-yourselfer, so when I admit defeat it usually means the process really isn't easy.

I posted some instructions on the Javad users site. Was not easy to figure out, but once done it does seem fairly simple. Probably should have gone with 13 for erp on 4 watt though. Much like 70 for 35 watt I didn't know. On the other hand, the guys at the radio shop who do all the police and fire work laughed out loud when I mentioned possible perils of operating outside the license. They were surprised I bothered to get one at all. Apparently the fcc is not exactly roaming the country looking for violators:)

Radio policing is an area thing and it depends upon who is listening on the other end in your area.

If there is a radio group in your area that gets insulted by your use of the airwaves, they can make waves for you.

Many years ago there were some fanatical enthusiastic monitors of the airwaves that were always listening in and got their feathers all rustled when protocol was broken and they would crusade to bring justice or silence offenders.

If your radio use is over riding others and causing interference with "important" or "restricted" lines of communication, best have yourself current and find a fix.

When the radio gurus get talking they soon begin to speak in unknown languages. They can however enhance your radio use and solve most problems.

I heard a story once about the "radio police", can't remember if it was from Leica guys or Trimble guys. They were doing range testing with VHF radios and had their base set up high in the mountains. As they were only doing testing, they never stayed on for very long periods. One day they were out testing and a car pulled up, and out hopped a couple of guys from the FCC. They said, "We've been looking for you guys for days, every time we got close you shut down", or words to that effect. Apparently they were interfering with some essential service like police / fire / ambulance. They didn't get in any trouble, other than being told to shut it down.

The likelihood of getting caught running unlicensed is very small, but the potential fines for getting caught are very high. I ran unlicensed handhelds for about 10 years without trouble, but finally decided that getting the license was worth the peace of mind. YMMV.

John Hamilton, post: 413360, member: 640 wrote: Shelby: and it was probably just one company, then someone decided to leave and go into competition. Surprising that the cost is not lower being that there apparently is competition. Maybe they have "agreed" not to lower prices, or maybe there is enough work to keep them both happy.

My thoughts too, I just thought it likely something like that. And, NO, so far they are quite a bit apart on pricing, I have an ongoing e-mail dialog with both currently.

I paid good money in 2012 to update/renew my existing license for narrowband compliance, when I finally got it back it seemed to have the wrong emission designations both on my voice and RTK data frequencies, at the time the licensing folks were swamped and getting them to return a call was impossible. Anyway, I should of bird dogged that more, turns out my intuition was right and I indeed DO NOT have a compliant FCC license, so now trying to get that fixed. Somewhat moot, since I rarely use voice radios anymore (and actually for analog voice the FCC license is narrowband BUT my license doesn't allow digital voice which I now have too), BUT the RTK frequencies did not get even semi compliant. Again a bit moot, since I sold my 35W RTK gear and replaced with 900 MHz license free gear. Still want to get it all compliant in case I decide to purchase another UHF RTK 35W radio or more likely rent for a specific project. Anyway, five years later I am cleaning up the inadvertent mess.

SHG

You could not get caught and you could pay BIG fines, but that usually only happens after you ignore the request to stop. There was a local firm operating an unlicensed RTK base station on a construction site that just happened to be interfering with a repeater on a large commercial repeater network of the largests Motorola dealer in the NW, they got it stopped, but it took a few days.

I may be even more sensitive to doing this correctly these days since also being licensed as an amaturer operater through the FCC. I figure a few hundred bucks to be compliant in the business for 10 years is money well spent. Wouldn't want to jeopardize my pleasure radio once they found my name was listed on both licensees, they may take the attitude that I should know better.

SHG

https://www.fcc.gov/reports-research/maps/fcc-enforcement-actions-against-pirate-radio-location/

Here is one right in my hometown, $10000 fine, was in the broadcast radio spectrum and the trigger was a complaint by an affected licensed station, isn't this how almost ALL PLS board complaints start? The FCC does not I believe have enough manpower to have radio police on the prowl (the same as PLS boards) BUT as soon as something is reported they usually take action and that is how surveyors with unlicensed transmissions get in hot water.

http://transition.fcc.gov/eb/Orders/2012/DA-12-1140A1.html

[ https://blog.ashgps.com/2015/01/09/recent-fcc-warning-survey-dealers-are-responsible-for-their-radio-programming-actions/&apos ;">Dealers Responsible for Proper Programming ]

People get caught all the time. You can sign up for the FCC daily enforcement listing:

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