BTW, almost anything can be recorded as a Miscellaneous Document at the courthouse.?ÿ You can record your son's math homework if you so desire.
Ahhh, try that here, lol
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Same here, you can record anything you want to put into the public record. The recording office doesn't want any liability; once they "approve" something, they become responsible. Not gonna do it, wouldn't be prudent...
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@gary_g?ÿ
That's what it means to me also. The office always gives me a plot plan for anything I'm laying out... whether it's in a new subdivision in town or a one off rural build, if I'm laying it out we have a plot plan first, either done by our office or a local engineering firm. Depending on the municipality, most of them (all of them in town) have to have a surveyors real property report done once the foundation is up...often they won't let them do drywall until we complete the srpr.?ÿ
The plot plan is not a survey of any kind, it's just a sketch of the proposed new building with proposed setbacks and grading...when we lay it out for them we make sure that it fits the proposed setbacks on the property.?ÿ
It's not a survey until we tie in the building corners on the lot once the foundation is up. Then it's a "dwelling under construction" as the building is not yet complete. That's the way it works in our township anyway.?ÿ
This is what I don't understand...
Sure, local municipalities can drive development, but not in contravention of state law.
The plot plan is not a survey of any kind, it's just a sketch of the proposed new building with proposed setbacks and grading...when we lay it out for them we make sure that it fits the proposed setbacks on the property.
Setbacks are not proposed, they are set by zoning.
And what are the setbacks in relation to? The property/boundary lines.
There should never be a doubt that a proposed new build will or will not fit within the building envelope, and be on the correct property.
It's not a survey until we tie in the building corners on the lot once the foundation is up
Depending on the municipality, most of them (all of them in town) have to have a surveyors real property report done once the foundation is up...often they won't let them do drywall until we complete the srpr.
How does this sequence of events prevent the house from being built over the line, or outside the building envelope, but inside the property, or any other number of problems we see in construction? Architects, engineers, developers, builders, owners, laypeople, etc., repeatedly demonstrate that they probably should not be preparing "plot plans", but they are, and they do.
The hole is dug, the (basement) foundation is laid, the lumber is up, but we're going to stop construction at drywall?
The goal of building codes, zoning, etc. is to get things right ahead of time, and not have the muni be in the business of handing our variances like candy after the fact.
I get it. This happens all the time, and in every state. But every additional layer of government manages to take a straightforward process and make it worse for wear.
And in Boulder Colorado shade lines are a huge discrepancy and faux pax when the building height reaches 2 stories. it's a real crazy thing to witness, esp if you're on the losing side..
I agree with your last paragraph. It's ridiculous to stop them at drywall. But that's the city for you.
As for setbacks, yes they are proposed.
Minimum setbacks are set by the zoning. That doesn't mean we set them at the minimum. We always leave a little bit of wiggle room even if some of the proposed are set at the minimum, by someone else doing the plot plan.
Proposed setbacks are just that... proposed. This is where they plan to build it. Once we tie in the building, the srpr will show actual ties to the property lines. By that point, they better be within the minimum setbacks set by the zoning. The zoning should always be in the file for the job.
generally speaking, though, wouldn't it be true that once it's a "boundary survey" it needs to be recorded? Anything less would not need to be recorded?
State specific. Not all states require recording
I wasn't arguing with you, merely using your unique example of how common it is for local municipalities bungle simple tasks.
Now I will argue with you.
By definition, a setback is the minimum distance that a building is required by local law to be set back from the edges of whatever piece of private property it sits on.
The location of the building does not change the setbacks.
Your "local use of vocabulary" is not consistent with the proper application of the term within the context of the law.
Can't it be that "setback" is the actual distance, and there is a legally required minimum value for that distance?
There's been a lot of talk in this thread about how things are different in different states. The OP profile says he is in Wisconsin.
He had a lot of discussion in earlier threads about a disagreement over a boundary.
He had a lot of discussion in earlier threads about a disagreement over a boundary.
Me thinks attorneys, paralegals, and admin staff regulary troll this forum for research starting points in lieu of experience and the cost of paying for fumbling LexisNexis/Westlaw searches.
The problem is the "plot plan" is considered a bona fide survey by the unsuspecting public.
Generally these were created by and for lending, due to federal requirements to lower closing costs to make homes more affordable to lower income folks 1980'/90's. They certainly were not going to lower their own take, nor that of attorneys. The mortgage survey had to go. Likewise the attorneys opinion of title, but they simply formed title companies. My last mortgage I had to sign an acknowledgement that I was informed of common ownership interest of attorney, lender, and title insurance company. Then signed an owners affidavit that nothing had changed from a 15 year old survey. Anything to get those closing costs down (a worthy goal no doubt).
So instead of an Attorneys title opinion and a "bona fide" survey, the lender now gets a title insurance policy on every property which allows a lower cost (used to be only on major dollar properties). And these policies except anything a survey would disclose, but they will remove that exception with an inspection that they call "plot plan".
The title policy and Plot Plan are required and in the name of the lender. But, the consumer pays as part of requirement for the loan.
Hence, many consumers think they have purchased a bona fide survey for themselves, when in reality they have not purchased a bona fide survey and it was not for themselves. And they have not purchased title insurance for themselves, only purchased it for the lender.
The reason the lender/title insurance will remove the survey exception is due to actuarial studies that showed very little risk of loss if a quick inspection was done. This quick inspection in most urban/suburban areas should be enough in most cases to determine if there are any major encroachments.
As can be seen in this thread there are other uses of the term plot plan. A consumer can use one to obtain a permit but is still liable if end up violating code.
A "bona fide" survey is an actual "professional opinion" of the precise location of the parcel lines. It's not a guarantee either, but it's a much higher level of risk management than the "product" of a "plot plan".
I like the route of describing an ILC some States have taken. Would be nice to have a national definition of ILC, and something for proposed plans not based on a "bona fide" survey, but "plot plan" is used in so many ways in so many differing laws/agencies that it would be impossible at this point to use that term.
Sorry, you're right. I should have said "proposed offsets". I'm just used to saying I'm "checking the setbacks".
I’m curious what everyone else’s definition of a “plot plan” or “site plan” is and what kind of note would you put on a “site plan” if you just wanted to show the boundary lines without doing a whole survey?
I’m curious what everyone else’s definition of a “plot plan” or “site plan” is and what kind of note would you put on a “site plan” if you just wanted to show the boundary lines without doing a whole survey?
I consider a site plan to be topo, utilities, boundary, show all easements, encumbrances, ect. A plot plan is a layout of proposed structures.
Often a pilgrim says they want an ALTA when all they need is a site plan. Site plan pre design, plot plan post design.
