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@mercer That’s all good, but you’re seeking simple answers to not so simple problems. There’s a lot more to it than just figuring out which buttons to push or which projection to use. For one, by just averaging your positions what you have is an autonomous position that is accurate in real time to about +/- 10′-15′. Doesn’t really help you that much if you are trying to match up with a CAD design for layout. I commend you wanting to learn new things, but if you aren’t interested in really getting the proper training and understanding what all is at work here, there really isn’t much anyone here can do to help you. In light of that your best bet would be to get with another construction outfit and see how they do it. In this line of work, our mistakes are cast in concrete and steel, and they tend to be very expensive.
Willy
So, you’re “new to surveying” and “any help would be appreciated”.
Yet you denigrate the experts warning you of your impending fiasco.
These people have already made the mistakes you’re probably going to make, and they’re trying to warn you.
It’s not the fancy equipment you have that will get the job done, it’s the expertise in using it. The equipment will now let you make mistakes faster than you ever could. The recommendations for training are well advised. Not knowing even the basics is scary. Your enthusiasm will go a long way though.
Personally, I wouldn’t use GNSS for paving; it’s not precise enough for vertical. But, you don’t have to listen to me; I’ve only got 60+ years experience and done zillions of paving jobs.
Sounds like the crabs are nibbling on sensitive areas. There are several very knowledge deep layman responses here that you could benefit from if you can sort through the knee jerk (but appropriate) replies. My opinion, which has a surveyors value of exactly zero, is that if you don’t care so much about the edge of paving or the location of a manhole cover being a couple inches off a direct scale of the plan, you abandon datums and reference systems all together and do a localized site calibration at a 1.000000 CSF (scale factor) preferably based on points on site that an original survey established as control or, if not available, learn what setting control might entail with your system. if you’re paving more than a half mile, hire a surveyor to set periodic local control or you might be in for a soul crushing dose of geodetic reality. Having equipment that compensates for the speed of light doesn’t have anything to do with accuracy.
Ahhh, one of the well enjoyed benefits of not yet being licensed is that I can dole out BS without fear of reprisal. (taking the state in 4 weeks… if you pray, pray)
dd
Unlike you, I’m not afraid to take on new challenges, and in turn learn new things.
That’s a bit salty. The surveyors here have all taken on these challenges plus a whole lot more. That’s how we feed ourselves. I think that you are finding out that there is more to this surveying gig than walking around with a funny stick and a can of spray paint.
For the record, I don’t mind offering a few pointers. But you have asked an extremely broad question that has raised a red flag. You need serious training, not just pointers. What you are getting here is tough love. We see a guy who is about to get himself in over his head and don’t want to participate.
I’ve been working around surveying for over 40 years, but, have no interest whatsover with anything paving related. Not my cup of tea. But, I have had to learn quite a variety of new things based on the technology we have readily available today as compared to when I started. One thing that has kept me in business is knowing what I don’t know. Then, either I become proficient or I hire someone who is proficient to work for me. Spending the money has always been cheaper in the long run than becoming proficient temporarily as the one constant is change. Lots of change. I do what I do best, then hire subordinates to make money for me.
Think like this:
You are driving across town. You have a 5 yr old in her car seat, and she is smart. As you pull across an intersection, she yells, lookout dad!
You slam on your brakes. And, an 18 wheeler comes out of nowhere, and you would have been hit, if she had not yelled.
Now, how should you treat her?
Shaddup little girl. I know what I’m doing.
Or, kiss her, and tell her she really saved the day.
The opening post here, demonstrates lack of knowledge, which knowledge is critical to your endeavor.
Find someone who has genuine knowledge, and experience.
You’ll thank us later.
Thanks,
N
Has this question been answered?
“Is this SurveyorConnect? or ContractorConnect, or GIS-Connect, or “I-Have-A-Paving-Company-Connect”?
For the record, I don’t mind offering a few pointers. But you have asked an extremely broad question that has raised a red flag. You need serious training, not just pointers.
This is exactly what I thought upon reading the original post.
It’s the equivalent of selling residential wood-burning stoves for a living, deciding to start installing commercial HVAC systems by way of buying a bunch of units, and then going on an HVAC forum and asking “how do I install these units?“
Put another way, I wouldn’t buy paving equipment, and my firm wouldn’t jump into paving work, without either hiring an expert to run our paving division, or paying for extensive training on the equipment. In all likelihood we’d do both.
That’s why you’re getting answers you don’t like.
I’m not looking to start a surveying company. My only intent is to facilitate construction layout via use of the equipment we have available.
You may not be wanting to start a surveying company, but you give the impression of wanting to avoid hiring a surveyor by doing the surveying work yourself. That’s all fine and dandy, but why would you expect a forum to do the legwork for you and not have to do any training or reading about the subject prior to asking questions?
“…people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.” -Neil Postman
I had assumed it was the Nad 83 CBN6, but I cant seem to find this system on fieldgenius.
You may have assumed right and FG may not have the system loaded.
1 Contact FG and see if they have a download.
2 Contact the providers of the coordinates and ask for the parameters of Nad 83 CBN6. Then download the FG user manual if you don’t have one and create a user defined coordinate system plugging in the needed parameters.
I see no reason that surveyors should not be involved with GIS or construction in all its forms
I see no reason that surveyors should not be involved with GIS or construction in all its forms
Neither do I.
A social media platform with a considerable number of licensed professionals willing to hand out advice seems like a great target for lawsuits.
Maybe, I don’t think so. I am from Florida, we don’t care what other people think, believe or do; until it affects me, little kids or animals. Professional Opinions are still opinions. I will continue to put my 2 cents worth into these posts (as I do when clients call). If my thoughts, experience and advice helps someone decide, think or determine a direction, great; if not, then please disregard. As long as I don’t point to a spot on the ground and say that is your Boundary, I am ok. If you think I am negligent and liable for what you heard on the internet, sue me. I know people in different parts of the country think different, and I see how opinions aggravate many of those who also posts here. But when someone ask for assistance, something inside compels me to voice what little bit I know, or have tried or think might work. Everyone has access to a ‘little black box’ now. I was told thirty years ago that ‘little black box’ would end Surveying. It has done nothing but require more Surveying.
I’d still like to understand the 44 km mystery.
.
I hear you, and I think that most of the people that join this site have similar feelings about helping others as you do. We (surveyors) are a very small (and shrinking?) community, and there are very few outlets/avenues for open and varied discussion about topics, be it novice to the expert, from industry novices and experts. This forum is one of the best places I’ve seen for such opportunity.
The follow up comments from the group after my remarks are a testament to the generosity and willingness of the fourm folks to assist.
we don’t care what other people think, believe or do; until it affects me
I get it.
But this is exactly the mindset that large numbers of people adopt that allows/enables bad ideas/behaviors to persist and grow until it’s a problem that can’t be resolved.
And when the failure happens, there is massive primary and collateral damage, but the bad actors are rarely held accountable for their bad ideas/behaviors.
Like having only 1 SVB board member out of X with any actual banking experience.
@bill93 Just a guess but with just the eastings off by that much sounds like he was using the false origin of the adjacent UTM system for that region? But who knows.
WillyIt’s because the values he posted and the GIS they are from are on Modified Transverse Mercator where the zones are reduced to 3° longitude wide (+/- 1.5° either side of the central meridian), making the scale factor equal 0.9999 along the central meridian.
Which is different than generic UTM.
Yes. The 21T designation is a key that something is amiss. Actually, his point is in UTM zone 22N. It is likely that his software does not have these 3-degree zones.
There’s a nugget here: Provincial Geo-Referencing Standards – Fisheries, Forestry and Agriculture (gov.nl.ca)
The meta data is a mystery but it’s a fair bet that ESRI has a string for it somewhere.
Maybe @Mkennedy can shed some light.
Edit: More here: Projections – CGRSC
Looks like it should be MTM zone 1. As @michigan-left pointed out, the scale factor on the central meridian (53W) is 0.9999. The false easting is 304800.0 m. The EPSG well-known ID is 22641 for the version based on (what they call) NAD83(CSRS)v6. Esri just added it in our latest release, ArcGIS Pro 3.1. Here’s the Esri WKT1 string:
PROJCS["NAD83(CSRS)v6_MTM_Zone_1", GEOGCS["NAD83(CSRS)v6", DATUM["North_American_Datum_of_1983_(CSRS)_version_6", SPHEROID["GRS_1980", 6378137.0, 298.257222101]], PRIMEM["Greenwich", 0.0], UNIT["Degree", 0.0174532925199433]], PROJECTION["Transverse_Mercator"], PARAMETER["False_Easting", 304800.0], PARAMETER["False_Northing", 0.0], PARAMETER["Central_Meridian", -53.0], PARAMETER["Scale_Factor", 0.9999], PARAMETER["Latitude_Of_Origin", 0.0], UNIT["Meter", 1.0]]I’m just one of those evil GIS people. Bwah-hah-hah! Seriously, I do coordinate systems and transformations at Esri.C’mon, man!
Well, at least maybe he’ll only be off by the accuracy of an autonomous position now, which may (or may not) put his paving over the line 50% of the time now.
Nice work.
Mercer, you have gotten enough replies to show you an example of the knowledge needed to successfully use the equipment you have purchased. Did you understand it all? Do you think having the coordinate system issue resolved is the only speed bump you are going to encounter? Aren’t you a bit nervous about what else you might not get right and not know it until it is too late?
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