WWCD? (What Would Cooley Do?)

Forgot to Mention...

None of those are called for. All calls are to a point.

A couple more details please

Is this a lot corner where the lots are 80 X 125 and small distances can be critical?

5 acre lots?

A section or quarter corner?

Will your choice of location impact any existing uses, set backs, etc?

Has there been any obvious reliance?

A couple more details please

Good Questions.

> Is this a lot corner where the lots are 80 X 125 and small distances can be critical?

This is a 70' x 115' sell-off of a 150'x 115' lot in an unrecorded subdivision.

> Has there been any obvious reliance?

Not that I can tell. These are in the middle of a chicken coop 🙂

If none of those were there, where would you put your iron, based on any other evidence you find? Is that close to one of the existing ones? If none of them have credentials, that's one way to pick.

A couple more details please

If you can reliably locate the 150 X 115, then I think the answer is to hold the 70'-80' split.

Beyond that we get into a whole lot of if, ands, or buts.

First you acquire a hand grenade. Then you learn how to use it. Once properly trained you drop the live grenade on top of the cluster and run like crazy.

Return to evaluate the results. Repeat process until no offending monuments can be found. Then do what you think is right.

Or.......... wrap everything in flo-pink flagging, spray paint the entire area, install large warning signs indicating reasons why this area should absolutely not be disturbed. Come back the next day to find absolutely nothing left except dozer tracks.

I say if your calculated corner is within 1-2' of those pipes and/or pin don't set something else. You'll just add to the confusion. Show the evidence found as a witness with a tie to the corner.

"The surveyor must inquire into all the facts, giving due prominence to the acts of parties concerned, and always keeping in mind, first, that neither his opinion nor his survey can be conclusive upon parties concerned, and second, that courts and juries may be required to follow after the surveyor over the same ground, and, that it is exceedingly desirable that he govern his action by the same lights and the same rules that will theirs."

-Thomas M. Cooley

😉

> I say if your calculated corner is within 1-2' of those pipes and/or pin don't set something else. You'll just add to the confusion. Show the evidence found as a witness with a tie to the corner.

The photo above is looking roughly North. Projecting from other good evidence, the calculated corner is about 1.5' West of the pipe cluster.

Wow, that sucks. Just don't pull the chickencrap (intended) maneuver I have seen before, the "paper pin cushion". That's where people call to where the corner should be, but don't set it - then show the others as references. I hate that.

> the "paper pin cushion".

I agree.

When I see comments like this on a plat such as, "IP Found-0.25'N and 0.35' E of Corner" it makes me wonder how Joe Blow Homeowner even knows where his surveyed corner is at in the field. How could he be expected to build a fence to that???

As one of the few experienced hand grenade instructors here, I'll say bad advice. Never run from a blast you are initiating. If you can't walk leave the pin in and plan better...
The presence of the chicken coop raises another possibility. Fermenting chicken poop makes a great binder and nitrate source for an IED. Use local scrap to shape the charge and a little 2 cycle gas to make it pretty. .

My idea is to Set a new monument, where it is supposed to be.

However, make this monument a 1" pipe, or 1" rebar, with a 3-1/2" cap, with your name and number on it. And, get a few accessories to each one you set.

Publish and record a nice plat, telling what you did. In other words, DOCUMENT your actions, make your monuments "Look more official", and with references, harder to move.

My point being, make it tough to argue with.

That's what Cooley would do.

Cooley would take the position that you are monumenting the original location, which has been pulled out.

N

Thanks, Deed.

> "The surveyor must inquire into all the facts,
First thing you do is STOP WORK UNDER YOUR CONTRACT!! Execute your stop clause, call the client and inform them of the conflicting evidence you've recovered. Then start work under Addendum #1 to expand your research to recover the evidence so you can get paid to properly investigate the problem and determine all the facts.

>giving due prominence to the acts of parties concerned,
You're wasting your time comparing yourself with what the surveyors have done, should have done, or would have done if they were you. They're not you. They've each expressed their opinions based upon the evidence they've recovered. You're focusing on 1/3 of the evidence. What matters is, what did the LANDOWNERS do AFTER the surveyors completed throwing darts at a complicated situation. What did the landowners rely upon? What improvements have been made in reliance upon what? Who ordered the surveys? Why did they order the surveys? Were any of the surveys relied upon to erect improvements? That's the evidence that the surveyor is supposed to gather so we can "give due prominence to the acts of the parties concerned."

>and always keeping in mind, first, that neither his opinion nor his survey can be conclusive upon parties concerned,
It appears that several surveyors have already thrown a hand grenade on this situation and run away. Don't just throw in another grenade. How about you, instead, assist the landowners in resolving the ambiguities and conflicting evidence rather than adding to it. It's obvious that the parties don't care about the "freak opinions" of the surveyors or you'd be finding harmony between the landowners' actions and the surveyors' opinions. Instead, you're finding landowners' actions based upon landowners' actions with no harmony toward the prior surveys. That's because the surveyor's opinion is "not conclusive upon parties concerned."

>and second, that courts and juries may be required to follow after the surveyor over the same ground,
We've been taught to focus on the prior surveys and to "follow the footsteps" of those who have gone before us. Yes, we need to be aware of those footsteps, but we must also consider those footsteps in light of the landowners' actions made in reliance upon them. If there is no reliance, then they're just footsteps in the sand. We need to pay attention to those who will follow after us, i.e. the courts and juries.

>and, that it is exceedingly desirable that he govern his action by the same lights and the same rules that will theirs."
What we really need to focus on when retracing boundaries is the rules of law which govern the way we gather and analyze evidence, the way we determine the facts and the way we derive our opinion regarding the location of land boundaries. The entire process is governed by laws consistently laid down by the courts. We must be students of the law so we can understand why the legal principles exist and how they are to be applied in our daily conduct. When we begin to properly consider boundary law and use it to determine the location of land boundaries, we will begin to understand what Cooley was talking about. We will begin to "govern our actions by the same lights and the same rules."

>
> -Thomas M. Cooley
>

JBS

P.S. Oh, I forgot. E) None of the above.

Time not runneth against the king (or quasi-political subdivision or any entity that is for public good), so Cooley wouldn't do a damn thing. 🙂

Thanks for all of the thoughtful replies. This has given me a lot to think about.

As a closing comment: DOCUMENT what you did, and why.

N

1.5' is significantly off, but depending on the specifics I may or may not set something else. If it's an area where 1.5 ft REALLY matters then I may set something but even in Jersey most of the time I'd just leave it alone and show an offset to the corner.

Great expansion of Cooley's writing. It's a keeper for me!!