So I've been noticing that title companies have been saving my pdfs and closing with them (on a subsequent sale) years later.
So I started putting a watermark on the pdfs that only appear when printed.
I also have been putting an expiration date so the pdfs expire 6 months after I send them.
Does anyone know if this is legal?
When asked by the title company I tell them I have supplied them with hard copies and if they need more I will send them. I tell them I have had problems with unauthorized copies being changed and printed so we do not allow the pdfs to be printed, only viewed.
Sadly a title compsany does not care where or when the signed description originated.
Well, I don't see how it would be "illegal" to make a PDF that is either non-printable or that expire. I actually think it is rather practical, really. But the legality of it would depend upon your local ordinances. I'd venture to guess that as long as you aren't breaching a contract (i.e. a contract states that you will provide PDF files) then you're fine.
I don't usually have problems with title companies using my stamped descriptions years later. I have a problem with them just transcribing my descriptions (often with errors) and using that on the deed. Obviously my stamp doesn't go with the transcribed description, but it does give the opportunity for errors to inadvertently get into the descriptions and then get propagated into the title chain.
How about the Maxwell Smart method? This ALTA survey will self destruct in 10...9...8...7...
So what is the best way to provide digital copies if the client does not request paper prints? How do you best protect yourself?
Rich., post: 344186, member: 10450 wrote: So I started putting a watermark on the pdfs that only appear when printed.
What's to keep the end user from saving a screen capture, cropping it to the page limits and making a durable PDF from the image?
Jim Frame, post: 344411, member: 10 wrote: What's to keep the end user from saving a screen capture, cropping it to the page limits and making a durable PDF from the image?
If they are smart? Nothing.
However they do not know there is an expiration date. So it will just be in their files and will expire when the time comes. It does not tell them it will expire so they probably won't prepare for it.
But to print, yes they can do that if they wanted. But most of them probably wouldn't even know how to do so or even know it's possible...I hope.
What behavior does an "expired" PDF exhibit when one attempts to open it?
Jim Frame, post: 344411, member: 10 wrote: What's to keep the end user from saving a screen capture, cropping it to the page limits and making a durable PDF from the image?
Or printing a hardcopy and re-scanning...
What I use, the pdf opens and a pop up tells you it has expired. Then the pdf is blank with "expired on -----" with the date it expired.
I haven't figured a way to revive it. Even turning my computer clock back.
I'm sure there's a way but it's not easy. If someone sitting at a title companies desk can figure it out then I'll let them use it.
Truth be told, if they called me I probably would send them a new copy. I just would like to have the control of when and who is using it.
Obviously if they call 8 years from now bc they went to use it again then I am not sending it unless I update it first
Rich., post: 344186, member: 10450 wrote: So I've been noticing that title companies have been saving my pdfs and closing with them (on a subsequent sale) years later.
So I started putting a watermark on the pdfs that only appear when printed.
I also have been putting an expiration date so the pdfs expire 6 months after I send them.
Does anyone know if this is legal?
When asked by the title company I tell them I have supplied them with hard copies and if they need more I will send them. I tell them I have had problems with unauthorized copies being changed and printed so we do not allow the pdfs to be printed, only viewed.
How is the expiration date applied?
It would be cool to have it set to expire on the due date of the invoice,Maybe a key could be given to the client upon payment to continue using the file. Is that possible?
skwyd, post: 344283, member: 6874 wrote: Well, I don't see how it would be "illegal" to make a PDF that is either non-printable or that expire. I actually think it is rather practical, really. But the legality of it would depend upon your local ordinances. I'd venture to guess that as long as you aren't breaching a contract (i.e. a contract states that you will provide PDF files) then you're fine.
I don't usually have problems with title companies using my stamped descriptions years later. I have a problem with them just transcribing my descriptions (often with errors) and using that on the deed. Obviously my stamp doesn't go with the transcribed description, but it does give the opportunity for errors to inadvertently get into the descriptions and then get propagated into the title chain.
How is that different from someone building a house in reliance on a survey plat? Surveyors are hired to produce information that will be used, sometimes imperfectly or incompetently. But if surveys must not be used, then they are unnecessary, and so are surveyors.
What program are you using to do this?
Corey
I'm not sure I understand the question. When I prepare a legal description, I sign and stamp it along with the date that I signed the description. If a title company chooses to use this description much later, they do so at their own risk as the date that I prepared the description is there. And if they come back to me 2 or 3 years later asking me to "update" the description, they will get a proposal from me to do the necessary work to verify that either the legal description is still correct or that it needs to be changed (and they have to pay for my time to make sure the changed description is correct). I'm not sure how that makes a surveyor unnecessary.
skwyd, post: 344571, member: 6874 wrote: I'm not sure I understand the question. When I prepare a legal description, I sign and stamp it along with the date that I signed the description. If a title company chooses to use this description much later, they do so at their own risk as the date that I prepared the description is there. And if they come back to me 2 or 3 years later asking me to "update" the description, they will get a proposal from me to do the necessary work to verify that either the legal description is still correct or that it needs to be changed (and they have to pay for my time to make sure the changed description is correct). I'm not sure how that makes a surveyor unnecessary.
The way the post was written, it seemed like the objection was to transcribing the legal description from the plat to a deed AT ALL. If you meant it was a bad idea to transcribe years after the survey was made, thats usually true, although it might be OK if the owner at the time of the survey is paying for the new deed and the owner knows nothing has changed since the survey.