Hello,
Your thoughts on this would be appreciated. The board that represents this community contacted us to find out where the interior lot lines and the subdivision boundary lines are in relation to their respective concrete block walls. Each lot is separated by cmu walls, the exterior boundary is walled.
The watering of the landscaped area adjacent to the walls has over the years eroded the walls. The homeowners are arguing with the association over whose responsibility it is to fix the walls and want to know where the walls are in relation to the property lines.
I believe that the centerline of the interior walls are built on the property lines and that the walls serve as evidence, typical of subdivisions here. On the exterior boundaries I usually find the pins at outside face of wall. A cc&r has not been made available. I asked about a title report.
Attached is a chapter from Ron Platt's Arizona Surveying and Boundary Law on Party Walls and the cover sheet of the plat.
Again, Your insight would be appreciated, Thanks, Paul
Paul,
I concur. I believe that the exterior face of the exterior walls now represents the exterior lot lines, and, absent a dispute between nieghbors or court decision to the contrary, the centerline of the interior walls delineates the interior property line location. The walls are the property lines and no survey is required.
Party Walls are interesting. CJS has a chapter devoted to them and Westlaw has a major topic covering them (290 Party Walls). There is a fair amount of case law regarding disputes centered around party walls. The scenarios differ, is it on the boundary, is it on one side, is there a license, an easement, some sort of equitable interest. The answers differ depending upon the evidence. The strict definition of a party wall is a wall shared by two buildings.
Gotta luv dem HOAs.
That plat date looks to be September 1987.
In many states the original bylaws have an end date unless they have been amended, renewed and/or rewritten and adopted again.
That would give the home owners an opportunity to have some ammo on their side.
Jim in AZ, post: 411041, member: 249 wrote: Paul,
I concur. I believe that the exterior face of the exterior walls now represents the exterior lot lines, and, absent a dispute between nieghbors or court decision to the contrary, the centerline of the interior walls delineates the interior property line location. The walls are the property lines and no survey is required.
Hello Jim, thanks for your input, have you ever been involved with one that did go to court? Thanks Again, Paul
Dave Karoly, post: 411046, member: 94 wrote: Party Walls are interesting. CJS has a chapter devoted to them and Westlaw has a major topic covering them (290 Party Walls). There is a fair amount of case law regarding disputes centered around party walls. The scenarios differ, is it on the boundary, is it on one side, is there a license, an easement, some sort of equitable interest. The answers differ depending upon the evidence. The strict definition of a party wall is a wall shared by two buildings.
Hello Dave, Thanks...I found Westlaw, but can you tell me who CJS is? The evidence is limited but I'll research existing cases.
A Harris, post: 411047, member: 81 wrote: Gotta luv dem HOAs.
That plat date looks to be September 1987.
In many states the original bylaws have an end date unless they have been amended, renewed and/or rewritten and adopted again.
That would give the home owners an opportunity to have some ammo on their side.
Thanks A, interesting, that may be the case given the homeowners attitude, I'll look into it, Thanks Again
rlshound, post: 411334, member: 6800 wrote: Hello Dave, Thanks...I found Westlaw, but can you tell me who CJS is? The evidence is limited but I'll research existing cases.
CJS=Corpus Juris Secondum, a legal encyclopedia. American Jurisprudence (Am Jur) is another one. Those are published by Thompson West which also owns Westlaw, an online legal information service.
rlshound, post: 411330, member: 6800 wrote: Hello Jim, thanks for your input, have you ever been involved with one that did go to court? Thanks Again, Paul
No I have not..
Dave Karoly, post: 411338, member: 94 wrote: CJS=Corpus Juris Secondum, a legal encyclopedia. American Jurisprudence (Am Jur) is another one. Those are published by Thompson West which also owns Westlaw, an online legal information service.
Thank you!
Case Number CV2010-007309, the resulting warranty deeds 2011-063072 & 2011-0630733, and plat Book 1143, Page 6 records of Maricopa county.
Seems to me, if there are pins, the lot and boundary lines could easily be established. In 1987 most firms did pretty good work. Why would this become a legal issue for you?
Who should maintain the wall is not a boundary issue.