Well, I'm studying for the next exam even though I haven't received my score yet. I know I made at least two very stupid errors due to overconfidence coupled with brain freeze. It was still a very good experience since I haven't really taken ANY test in a long time.
The only superior evidence is that which you haven't yet found.
Ya Know, there's a part of me that wishes I could edit or delete that last post, but it's there for the record. Such is life.
The only superior evidence is that which you haven't yet found.
thebionicman, post: 443370, member: 8136 wrote: The LSAW manual needs to be tabbed ahead of time. I added large tabs with meaningful titles. It heloed a lot.
I had bought tab dividers but for some inexplicable reason I forgot this very important step. Could've used them, too.
The only superior evidence is that which you haven't yet found.
Your post got me thinking how just how old is my license. I got my license in August 1984 and am now in my late fifties, 33 years,... no wonder I am thinking of retiring in ten or fifteen years! 1984 was the first year of the multiple guess for what would become the LSIT portion several years later. My first Washington certificate was signed by all the people that I had multiple discussions with regarding letting a 25 year old sit for the license and it had meaning to me. Unfortunately that certificate was burned on New Years eve in 1997 in an office fire. The replacement is signed by people I don't really know as well, so, I do kind of miss the original. Life is a journey and the true learning begins when you first have your license and feel that responsibility for it, so, savor every step including this one.
Norm Larson, post: 450049, member: 7899 wrote: [SNIP] Life is a journey and the true learning begins when you first have your license and feel that responsibility for it, so, savor every step including this one. [/SNIP]
Thank you, it will probably be at least several months or more out before I obtain it- yesterday's test really showed how rusty I was with respect to even simple PLSS stuff. Not good. Perhaps I was expecting more off-the-wall questions, e.g., restoration of a 1/4 corner with an angle break in the record...
OTOH, I'm sure glad I brushed up on water boundary law and concepts. I plan on doing at least some studying five days a week until the next test, which no doubt will be substantially different than this one saving for perhaps the general format.
I'll keep at it until I get my license. I think I waited too long, but better late than never.
The only superior evidence is that which you haven't yet found.
I passed the Washington test in the early eighties when it was a two day affair with the second day being "Blue Book" essay style answering. Got the second highest score in the State, which ain't that impressive considering only 14 passed.
I carried a shopping cart of books to the exam, but the key is they were well worn over the previous 10 years by reading them multiple times. Also attended ACSM conventions & State conferences, seminars, and workshops, worked for the USFS, BLM (very educational concerning PLSS), private firms, County govm'nt, from Crew Member to Party Chief to "Surveys Department Supervisor". I was 32 when I took the exam, having been a surveyor since I was 19, and had an expensive (thanks Mom & Dad) "liberal arts" degree in Chemistry so I knew how to take tests. The test wasn't that hard because it generally covered the obvious stuff I already knew and had dealt with at work.
You're taking the test in a few months so maybe concentrate on Washington's Tidal land laws, brush up on the PLSS, make sure exactly how the DNR Rules are concerning recording requirements and have a handle on which books you have say what about things right down to a quick index search of the book.
Since I took the test in 1983 my advice is probably useless. I'll add an anecdote just for fun to point out how badly the 1984 exam was structured. One of the essay questions was "you've lost your calculator and must solve this six leg traverse using the logarithms table on the next page to determine raw closure". Well, I'd last used algorithms in 1969 and was completely lost. I wrote down some jibberish and got 5 points for trying. One other was a photogrammetric question concerning lens, film format, flying height and target placement. Nailed that one because I'd set targets for many photo jobs and had the book on it with the simple equation for resolution/target density. Of course airborne GPS has reduced that need.
Anyway the best advice is to cover all the bases where you feel weak, learn skill taking tests if you're deficient in that area and if you fail ask for the results and improve on areas where you were not awarded points. Being awarded the right to sit for the exam is a milestone; failure is not an end. Come back next year with stronger skills and technique and you'll pass.
Mike Marks, post: 450051, member: 1108 wrote: You're taking the test in a few months so maybe concentrate on Washington's Tidal land laws, brush up on the PLSS, make sure exactly how the DNR Rules are concerning recording requirements and have a handle on which books you have say what about things right down to a quick index search of the book.
Great advice, thank you. I brought about 80% of my library with me just in case.
My biggest problem was that I had studied a very long time ago but never used the majority of my edumacation, so I lost probably 90% of what I should have remembered. Especially what was where info-wise, with a couple of exceptions. For books I brought:
- the 2009 Manual;
- both of Brown's books on boundary control and evidence;
- a second edition of Clark's book (you never know);
- Wattles' legal descriptions book;
- Black's Law Dictionary, the ACSM dictionary and the BLM glossary;
- the SPCS 83 manual and "Geodesy for the Layman";
- the LSAW Reference Manual;
- Jerry Broadus's book on Washington property law;
- Leroy Middleton and Steve Ivey's publications on water boundaries;
- Wolf & Ghilani's Adjustment Computations book;
- Newberry's Land Development book;
- DNR's lost corner restoration and property descriptions booklets;
- and maybe one or two others but I think that covered it.
I used a wheeled luggage case, but I should've invested in a hernia belt!!!
I definitely have the materials I need to study up, including the CFedS course material. But I had only six weeks to prepare, so I kinda expected failing the mental chi-square test and having some degree of cerebral flatulence. I took the test in the same manner as when I sat for my LSIT many moons ago, so I was okay there. For the "uncertain" questions (as opposed to the ones I was just plain stupid on), I'd write the question number on a sheet of scratch paper and then I came back to them last. Works well for me.
The only superior evidence is that which you haven't yet found.
??especially Steve Ivey's one on H2O boundaries.[/quote wrote:
Steve Ivey??s stuff is what got me through the exam along with the Waterfront title in the State of Washington by George N. Peters Jr. (Chicago Title)
I passed in 2016, took in with me all the DNR presentation materials in tidelands, section subdivisions, and legal descriptions. Also, Blacks Laws dictionary, Wattles, the 2009 manual, Clack, and Brown. The DNR presentations were in a Three-ring binders.
Best of luck to you!
I'm still waiting to hear from the Board- three weeks now since I've taken it. One would think getting the results would be quicker with multiple-choice, computer-read answer cards... but maybe not.
The only superior evidence is that which you haven't yet found.
and to think, I thought waiting on the pony express was exasperating
SellmanA, post: 452708, member: 8564 wrote: I'm still waiting to hear from the Board- three weeks now since I've taken it. One would think getting the results would be quicker with multiple-choice, computer-read answer cards... but maybe not.
As I recall it was around 6 weeks back in 2014. I'd like to say it gets easier with eaxh exam, but for me it doesn't. I have learned to convert the anxious energy into something useful. Waiting on CFEDS now. My garage is cleaner than its been since I moved in, all of my hard drives are optimized, dust bunnies removed from every hidden space and the list goes on.
The lesson is simple. Embrace and leverage your pathologies...
My wait is over. Passed. Hope you get good news too..
Just got the news today 🙁
Actually... one down, one to go. Passed 🙂
I honestly didn't think I was anywhere NEAR passing. Hopefully I pass the national exam in two weeks; if I do, then I will be MINIMALLY QUALIFIED to practice land surveying in Washington State once I get my number.
The only superior evidence is that which you haven't yet found.
Congratulations. Washington can be a tough one. You should go do Oregon while you are all studied up...
Thank you for the congrats!
I would definitely take a stab at Oregon if I had a desire to relocate there, however, I do not- even though some parts of Oregon are breathtakingly beautiful.
I might shoot for Arizona or some state where it's warmer... I heard there was a major mix-up in Phoenix a few years ago when someone misread the as-builts for what they thought was a natural gas line since it was labeled "G---G---G"... on the plans. They soon found out that they were actually GERITOL?? lines to supply the drinking fountains!!
The only superior evidence is that which you haven't yet found.
Now just waiting for my license to arrive. A milestone reached.
The only superior evidence is that which you haven't yet found.
Excellent news! Congrats. Let the fun begin...
Thank you!
Fun indeed- it should be real fun to remind the engineers at work that I am licensed to protect the public and NOT my employer, so to speak. All too often, the powers-that-be have little or no appreciation or understanding as to why field and office research must be extremely thorough- and field procedures rigorous- in order to ascertain boundary locations... it is especially important in the public sector as we are presumed correct by our very nature.
I could go on but I'll stop for now.
The only superior evidence is that which you haven't yet found.
The key to taking advantage of the "open book" aspect of the exam is doing what thebionicman said:?ÿ Place a lot of tabs throughout your references at places containing info you may need to look up?ÿand write some meaningful heading on the tabs so you know what each is marking before opening the book.
Knowing that you have info pertaining to a question somewhere in your reference materials doesn't do much good if you can't remember?ÿwhere in those materials the info is and have no method of finding it quickly.?ÿ You won't have time to find the info.?ÿ You will have time to scan through the short headings on your tabs to locate the info you need to find.
I didn't take the WA exam, but did take and pass the OR and CA exams, each on the first try using this method.?ÿ I went in with a fairly short stack of references which included:
- State Land Surveyors' Act & Board Rules
- State Subdivision Map Act
- Latest BLM Manual
- Clark on Boundaries (BCLP and EPBL, the "Brown" books, cover the same material - whether you take Clark or the "Brown" pair depends on which organization of material works best for you.
- A general survey reference such as Moffet & Bouchard, Elementary Surveying by Wolf, or something similar that covers measurement methods
- A good GPS reference that has good coverage of the practical use as well as the basic theory and "inside the black box" stuff of how it works
I haven't seen the publication by Broadus you mentioned.?ÿ If it is like his articles that used to run in POB, then it may be primarily stuff that is well above minimal competence and therefore unlikely to be on the exam.?ÿ However, I do have a couple of publications he had put together for seminars he used to do that had some good basic boundary principle info as well as more advanced discussion.?ÿ If I were practicing in WA, I'd certainly have Jerry's works in my professional library.
For the WA exam, I would think that Leroy Middleton's publications on Water Boundaries would be an indispensable reference for the exam.?ÿ WA has some significant and unique aspects to water boundaries that you won't find in a general reference like Cole's or in the other boundary references like Clark or the "Brown" books.?ÿ As a bonus, it's fairly thin, so won't add much bulk to what you have to carry in.?ÿ
Don't overload yourself with references.?ÿ If all of your references won't easily fit into a small backpack typically used by college or high school students as book bags, you are probably taking in more than you need and more than you will reasonably be able to use.?ÿ Check the Board's website.?ÿ They probably have a testing plan that will describe the type of content you can typically expect on the exam, and then choose your references to best cover those topics and to minimize redundant coverage of material.?ÿ For instance, it would be needless redundancy to take both Clark?ÿand Boundary Control & Legal Principles/Evidence & Procedures for Boundary Location.
But again, it can't be stressed enough that the key is to have a method in place to find the info you're looking for in your references quickly.?ÿ tabs with titles, and lots of them, worked best for me.