I have done hundreds and hundreds of mile of location lines with the owner (gas company) as the client. They have no special knowledge unless on of their employees actually was working while the line was being installed. And frankly, I've seen a lot of poor memories from many of them.
In my opinion,
The M-Scope is usable but the range is not very good. I've had the best luck with the Metrotech 850. I'm not sure if that is a current number but you could run it inductive (no direct hookup) or conductive (direct hookup on a riser, vent or directly to the line). The conductive works outstanding on non-plastic lines. Depending on the size of line you could do a pot hole then use the newer inductive clamps that just go around the pipe.
The advantage the 850 had over the other models at the time was that it gave you a very decent depth of the line.
Many plastic lines have a locate wire placed in the trench that can be helpful but I've seen these broken during installation and some just from corrosion.
Deral
Just attended a seminar at the NJ conference about SUE (subsurface utility engineering), and they demonstrated (by slide) an "M-Scope" which looked exactly like model 9890 DLXT in your link.
The instrument works two ways.....with a direct connection to the pipeline being located, or with an induction current with the transmitter situated over the top of the pipeline. Obviously, the direct connection method is better, and of course the pipe must be metallic.
The instrument cost less than $4000, and can be a valuable addition to your company if you do a lot of this type of work.
One thing they mentioned in the seminar is to be sure your contract has language that covers you. For example, "this survey doe not release the owner from following one-call procedures as required by state code" or some such statement.
Also, you should be clear up front what the expectations are with regard to accuracy and completeness.
Kris
Yeah, I though about that later, too. I know I wouldn't want to hook up an electric gizmo to a gas line either, but then I've never done it before.
dare I say it?
I was expecting someone to suggest dowsing for it, but personally I think a Ouija board works better.
utilility
Go to Ebay and type in "underground locator" and you will see a variety of equipment and prices. The rental deal sounds like the way to go.
dare I say it?
Actually, the guys leading the seminar said they had experience with someone dowsing at one of their sites.
They had no comment on how close the results were to theirs.
utilility
Used one years ago and was connected to a water line and as I worked my way down the
road I was buzzing up gas valves, as it turned out the signal was travelling thru the water line to a gas hot water heater, be careful with it or you may be calling out a gas line when it may well be water
ric
dare I say it?
That's the Metrotech unit we have Angelo. You've hit the nail on the head with your advice.
Works well on the rare occasion we need it. Liability keeps it in the case.
Trade you for a robot, John 😉
Rick
Steve
I've located miles and miles of pipeline with MScopes, Metrotech and Radio Detection (RD4000 my favorite) but that was always my clients infrastructure. I'm not taking the liability with a 3rd party pipeline that may or may not be the only critter in the ditch.
The one thing you can count on in the oil patch is that Right-of-Way maintenance is the FIRST thing that gets cut when times get lean, so you have NO idea what other utilities are buried out there.
One way to locate is to dig it up. Vacuum trucks work good as do backhoes. Tell the locating service you are going to dig up the line to locate it and need them to come show you where to dig. If it's a high pressure line the gas company will send out a guy to watch you dig. Don't knick the line (HP) it will blow up and kill you!
Yeah, I've had problems when you tell them you need a locate for design purposes. They never show!
We have a device made by Ditch Witch, called a Sub Site 75. It can be used several ways, with induction clamps, connection directly to the pipe, and also just set alongside. You are on slippery slope, if you tell the client that that is where the utility is and he hits it later...... over there!, then it is your arse on the line.
Good luck
-JD-
Soft Dig
Check out "Soft Dig"....they might also be of help to you.
http://www.softdig.com/14_Contact.html
Call back the one call folks and tell them they are about to do some blasting. They'll be out there tomorrow at the latest. For some reason it seemed important that a railroad was nearby as well.
I played that game at my first surveying gig. It always worked but unfortunately it got me deemed as the utility locator guy. "Get Eric to call them. He seems to know how to get those people out there." The latest was the afternoon of the next day. A couple of times they already had someone on site by the time we got there from the office.
One Call and Gas Pipelines
For those above who thought making a phony call-out was a good idea, let me tell you, it's not.
Most one-call agencies are very rigid and will not be happy when lied to. Someone will have to pay the bill for their work, and when a client finds out it was authorized under false pretenses, well, good luck.
As for those who were worried about hooking up a wire to a surface extension gas pipeline.......believe me, the pipeline isn't going to explode. It's already got current running through it, as it is probably using impressed current cathodic protection.
One Call and Gas Pipelines
Pot-holing is what the company I work for now uses. I have always witched utility lines myself and am just as accurate if not more so, as pot-holing. I have withed gas lines, water lines, and tiles. It doesn't matter if the pipes are metal or plastic. It works better than a metal detector.
One Call and Gas Pipelines
OK, I'll stop worrying, but still think I'll let somebody else mess with it.
We have told gov't agencies that request underground utility location that we survey what we can see. We are not a certified SUE firm. When there is a utility flag in the ground that someone else puts there we will locate and certify it as a utility flag placed by others designated as SUE quality level D(CI/ASCE 38-02 standard). We will not connect the dots.
One Call and Gas Pipelines
I use a unit made my Metrotech but only works on ferrous metals or tracer wire. I would question why you would accept presumed liability for no reward.
One Call and Gas Pipelines
> For those above who thought making a phony call-out was a good idea, let me tell you, it's not.
>
> Most one-call agencies are very rigid and will not be happy when lied to. Someone will have to pay the bill for their work, and when a client finds out it was authorized under false pretenses, well, good luck.
Plus, there is that whole "lying is wrong" thing.
One Call and Gas Pipelines
If One-Call would just come up with a fee for utility locating during design phase, they would rake in a lot of money and most people would gladly pay it with no temptation to lie. Maybe it's too much trouble to split up the proceeds with the various utilities (?)