I wonder if someone could tell me roughly the difference between a Trimble 5603 and an S3/S6. My company has an S6, but we are about to do some route surveying and topo surveying in a very remote location. I am hesitant to send our $40k gun out in the woods where it could get really damaged. The 5603 seem very reasonable priced, but I cant seem to find out specifically what the differences are. Our survey needs for this project are fairly simple and we won't be around anything except trees and rock.
Thank you.
> I wonder if someone could tell me roughly the difference between a Trimble 5603 and an S3/S6. My company has an S6, but we are about to do some route surveying and topo surveying in a very remote location. I am hesitant to send our $40k gun out in the woods where it could get really damaged. The 5603 seem very reasonable priced, but I cant seem to find out specifically what the differences are. Our survey needs for this project are fairly simple and we won't be around anything except trees and rock.
>
> Thank you.
There are huge differences, the 5600's are second generation robotic instruments and obviously not as modern as the "S" series. The most obvious one that comes to mind in your case, is the logistics of what you need to carry around. Everything about the 5600 is heavy. The instrument, the batteries ,the brick radio, the chargers etc. And there are a lot of parts associated with going robotic.
Here's a typical 5600 setup.
.
VS an S3
Much less bureaucracy. I would imagine that if you bought it used you'd have battery issues which would require some sort of work around-- possibly an external power package etc. My brick radios were stolen and we replaced them with paranis, which lightened up the load.
That being said the 5600 is a great gun and a real work horse, the reflectorless on mine (DR200+) out performs our S8 and S3.
Good Luck, if I can be of any help feel free to PM me.
I take my S6s everywhere. They are workhorses and they work great in the woods. The 5600s have everything Ralph mentioned to carry - the S series is completely wireless.
What your picture of the 5600 set up doesn't show is that you need the external "3 battery pack" or a 12v motorcycle battery to run the 5600, as well. I agree, there is a lot to carry. When I used to work with a larger company, we used to take a little non-robotic Sokkia into the deep wood and run a traditional crew, because there were so many parts and so much weight associated with the 5600 ... and the robotics in the woods was not great to begin with.
Really, the main difference as far as weight/items is that you have the external battery/cable to run the gun, an external radio/battery at the prism pole, a battery built into the prism pole to run the prism (makes the pole a little heavier), and a cable from the radio to the DC.
> What your picture of the 5600 set up doesn't show is that you need the external "3 battery pack" or a 12v motorcycle battery to run the 5600, as well. I agree, there is a lot to carry. When I used to work with a larger company, we used to take a little non-robotic Sokkia into the deep wood and run a traditional crew, because there were so many parts and so much weight associated with the 5600 ... and the robotics in the woods was not great to begin with.
>
> Really, the main difference as far as weight/items is that you have the external battery/cable to run the gun, an external radio/battery at the prism pole, a battery built into the prism pole to run the prism (makes the pole a little heavier), and a cable from the radio to the DC.
:good: :good:
AS Ralph, et.al., points out, weight is a big point.
I loved using the S6. I don't trust any robot to turn angles. They do it mathematically so they are always spot on nuts. Visually looking through the scope, they don't.
I do not like packing the hard case. I suppose that would go for any gun I be packing. I'm a little guy that goes about 130 soaking wet so weight means a lot to me.
Ralph,
Thanks for the reply and pictures. However, beyond the cases, I'm not seeing much of a difference. We wouldn't be packing chargers in the woods, just the gun. Are you saying the battery is really big or something? Looking at your pick, if you remove the cases it doesn't look that bad.
I'm trying to weight the cost of buying another S6 ($40k) versus something cheaper. Something that won't make me cry if the crew drops. We are going to be running with a 2-3 person crew, so they could spread the gear around.
I understand the 5600 is a older generation gun.
I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around it because when I was in school we used regular theodolites and basically got to touch a total station. I went into the engineering side of the business so I was using totally different gear for my work. Now I'm one of the owners and it was my idea to buy the S6. If seen that in operation it's pretty sweat. So, my perspective is seeing a total station (all manual) and then an S6. Nothing in between.
Can you clarify a bit more what makes them so bulky... Not seeing it in your pic.
Thanks!
> Ralph,
>
> Thanks for the reply and pictures. However, beyond the cases, I'm not seeing much of a difference. We wouldn't be packing chargers in the woods, just the gun. Are you saying the battery is really big or something? Looking at your pick, if you remove the cases it doesn't look that bad.
>
>
> I'm trying to weight the cost of buying another S6 ($40k) versus something cheaper. Something that won't make me cry if the crew drops. We are going to be running with a 2-3 person crew, so they could spread the gear around.
>
> I understand the 5600 is a older generation gun.
>
> I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around it because when I was in school we used regular theodolites and basically got to touch a total station. I went into the engineering side of the business so I was using totally different gear for my work. Now I'm one of the owners and it was my idea to buy the S6. If seen that in operation it's pretty sweat. So, my perspective is seeing a total station (all manual) and then an S6. Nothing in between.
>
> Can you clarify a bit more what makes them so bulky... Not seeing it in your pic.
>
> Thanks!
Here's the setup with the Battery.
Ok, if you're used to an S6 and you've never run a 5600 you've missed out on witnessing the advances. The speed difference is at least two fold, the battery life goes with out comparison. Now keep in mind that everything uses the same type of battery and charger. The instrument uses the battery pack pictured above (3 batteries), the brick radio uses one also, the rod has a built in battery which is what powers the diodes in the prism for the autolock, remember that this instrument did not have ATR or passive tracking.
My suggestion to you is either do it manually or insure the S6. I think you can spend a little more and go after an S3 which is what they replaced the 5600 with.
Hello stumpjumper. Going to jump in here and give you my two cents worth. True, the 5600 is older equipment. In my regular job, I work with the S6. In my consulting, I work with a 5600. Some people have talked about getting a brick battery. But I've been using a 12V electronic gel cell battery that is one third the size of a motorcycle battery that uses alligator clips for terminal connections. The big issue with the 5600 series is finding the right one. Many of the ones on eBay are actually manual types without the robotic elements needed to track the active target. It's often difficult to spot one that has all the necessary components. If it isn't specifically stated to be robotic, it probably isn't. I have heard it said in earlier posts that in order to use the robotic in the 5600s. They must have a working radio connected to a tracker unit attached below the EDM. However, some units did not have the tractor unit. So beware. My suggestion is to find a dealer that has one of these and purchase through them. You'll get all the required parts of which there are many. Not to mention chargers and cables. But as far as the battery is concerned, inexpensive 12V batteries can be used over the standard brick batteries.
Best of luck.
Mapman
The Trimble S3 and S6, and as far as I know the Leica robots as well, do NOT turn angle sets mathematically. They use the mathematics to orient themselves to the prisms, but after that the automated tracking takes over. The exception to that is if you have a non-reflective backsight such as a range pole with a bipod - in that case the S3/S6 will pause and ask you to verify that the pointing is correct (with Access anyhow).
Get a good backpack. We use our S6 in the woods a lot, the backpack I have is well padded and has three pockets for batteries, data collector, etc.
Before that I used for many years a larger backpack with a frame, similar to this:
Total Station backpack with frame
I MUCH prefer the newer rucksack.
I have a 5600 and love it and like BigE I'm only 132lbs but I don't have any trouble lugging the equipment around, even in the woods by myself. I have also helped a friend who has an S6. I set some GPS control points for him while he ran his S6. The S6 definitely has a lot less equipment and cables then my 5600.
Even though I love my 5600, if and when I needed to replace it I would still probably upgrade it to the S3 or S6.
My experience doing Topo with robotics in the woods (at least in the northeast) is that it is no faster than doing topo with a conventional instrument with 2 people. The robot will tend to loose lock as you move behind trees and brush from point to point. This can easily be fixed by having a person at the instrument to turn it toward the rod at the next shot to regain lock, but this begins to defeat the purpose of using a robot. Part of the justification of the additional expense of a robot over a conventional instrument is the reduction of field personal costs.
You said you are running a two to three man crew. If that's the case why robotic?
If this is a one shot type of project maybe you want to consider renting an instrument.
I agree, the robot is not a big help in the woods, it is better done with two people, one at the gun and one at the rod. It does help some, when you are looking for the rod if you can point it in the approximate direction it will then lock on and measure. But, trying to do it one man would be very difficult, at least in thick woods.
I had a 5603 many years ago, and now an S6. WELL WORTH the extra cost.
I have that 360 glass, but have never been able to power it up. What is the hookup procedure for it? It appears to get it directly through the 5/8" rod threads in the picture! Is there alternate ways? Thanks.
> I have that 360 glass, but have never been able to power it up. What is the hookup procedure for it? It appears to get it directly through the 5/8" rod threads in the picture! Is there alternate ways? Thanks.
When the 5600 series first came out, they offered the powered rod and 360° RMT prism that was powered via a short cable. A couple years later they eliminated the cable and the battery connection occurred through a contact located inside the threads.
Different prisms and different batteries. I seem to remember that the "power stick" with the cable connection may be difficult to obtain.
I suppose with some ingenuity and skill, you could convert between one or the other if you had access to the correct cable connections.
The 360° RMT prism is awesome for radial topo surveys and stake out.
