First things first ....
> Hmmm?
>
> Ok, I will take your word for it, but habits are hard to break and I have been spelling it Ya'll for a long time!!
>
> Y'all be careful now, Y'all hear?
>
> Are you sure about this?
>
> Keith
Be careful, some might think that's racist;-)
You are correct ...
Yes, I know and there are a bunch of Northern Virginians that are good democrats and don't fit in with the traditions of southern Virginia.
Keith
RADAR
You may be right and these days, most anything one says is taken by others as being racist.
Just because I can't stand to watch Omama on TV, does not make me a racist, but it does make me a conservative and can't stand his socialist ideas.
Keith
that horse oughta be dead by now..
Are you from Texas?
Pretty quiet down there today!
DIDN'T MEAN TO HYJACK
But you are right,(pun intended;-) ) those on the left have taken political correctness to a whole new level....
Back on track:
I find it funny that others believe the opinion of the BLM, or the opinion of someone ever involved with the BLM, could ever be outdated!
How are you to retrace footsteps if you don't even know how to walk?
Cheers,
Dugger
BLM
I find it funny that others believe the opinion of the BLM, or the opinion of someone ever involved with the BLM, could ever be outdated!
How are you to retrace footsteps if you don't even know how to walk?
Cheers,
Dugger
Davey
Keith, you are constantly going on about how surveyors always create kinks and gaps.
Mathematically, the retracement and the junior corner is point on line. ON LINE. Physically, there is a monument which may be nearby, witnessing that mathematical point.
The intent is clear, and there is no intent of kink or gap. The kink or gap is perception, based on whatever random deviations may have come in from instrument limitations at best or sheer sloppiness at worst.
Yet it seems that the two separate things, the mathematical point on the line, representing the actual corner, and the monument set to witness that actual corner, are mistaken one for another and vice versa, when they are actually separate things.
If it's a blunder, then it's a blunder, and the reasons for honoring it really have to be weighed accordingly.
If it's off by some trivial amount, there is not a kink or gap. It's "on line" in the sense of witnessing the actual point, which is on line.
You don't just always kink lines and create slivers new ownership encroaching onto others by way of a poorly placed junior corner, et cetera, other than through truly faulty work and through some history of reliance on that faulty work.
Yet that's what keeps coming out of Keith's poorly chosen, poorly worded blanket statements, which he keeps denying he's making, yet keeps making all the time.
Must be more of that random "omama" mumbling of his.
Davey
Do you have quotes or only your own babbling?
Texas land surveyors.
No comments on Kent's practice of pulling corner monuments in Texas?
Very telling ya know, unless of course the Survey Board is listening.
Keith
Davey
LOL! That's funny, Keith.
What do you think we've been talking about in all these various threads?
All part of the same thing.
Davey
You don't even understand the concept and spouting off stuff that I have not said.
Keith
Texas land surveyors.
Doesn't it depend on circumstances?
Are they in fact valid monuments?
Was the PLSS manual's standard of a diligent and careful retracement actually met?
Is there any evidence that the goat stake / monument was relied on as a monument?
How old is it?
And so on?
So the question is this:
Doesn't it depend on the circumstances?
A simple yes or no.
If yes, then why are you arguing? If you say "yes, it depends" then obviously Kent is right in remedying faulty corners some of the time. Yet here you are arguing with him about it.
If no, then you are not talking about practicing surveying. You are talking about locating whatever random junk may exist along a line, automatically accepting it as gospel, arbitrarily and capriciously moving people's lines around without regard to intent or validity, with no professional judgement exercised whatsoever.
That's all it really comes down to.
Davey
Keith, I understand the concept just fine.
What the manual says and what pretty much every other principle of surveying says, is that you retrace the original surveyor's footsteps in setting new corners.
It recognizes that where the monument is set might not coincide exactly with where the actual corner is.
The intent is clear.
The intent is to never create gaps, kinks or overlaps, and surveyors, unless explicitly given such a mandate by all of the property owners involved, via an agreement or specific transaction with each other. Otherwise, a surveyor will never have any mandate or ability to create gaps, kinks or overlaps.
Surveyors most certainly can and should remedy bad monuments where appropriate, where those basic principles were not followed, where the intent was not followed, where the prior surveyor had no mandate to create a gap, kink or overlaps.
And yet you chastize Kent for doing so.
The only area of complexity comes in where a bad corner has come to be relied upon. And that's where the courts come in.
This really isn't rocket science, Keith.
Texas land surveyors.
Gunter,
All very good questions that I would have thought had been taken into consideration prior to a life long debate as we have seen unfold. I like your style of blunt and to the point. However, this appears to be personal between the two. Let's hope all can be worked out about things.
Texas land surveyors.
> Was the PLSS manual's standard of a diligent and careful retracement actually met?
Gunter, I would wager to bet the PLSS manual was completely ignored. Texas is not PLSS as Kent has quite often stated!
Steve
Kent does not practice in a PLSS state so it is quite understandable that he is not familiarizer with the meaning of "obliterate" as we use it.
Also, we take it for granted that a surveyor removing any monument is usually considered a crime against the public... and the continual talk of "correcting" descriptions rather than record maps.
Perhaps we could all learn to better understand and embrace local cultures rather than chastising them from afar.
Kinks and gaps...
Surveyors do not have the authority to kink straight lines, this is true.
But here's the rub:
Surveyors do not have the authority to straighten out kinked lines.
Surveyors have the authority to retrace an existing boundary where ever it may lie. The entryman is expected to use ordinary intelligence when locating himself not make superhuman feats.
Lines become kinked because we are not perfect and land owners are not expected to be all knowing and perfect either. In the real practical world things get foxed up (Kent's new favorite word) sometimes and in some cases we don't have the authority to unfox them.
Dan when you posted this...
that time someone was posting "Chain!" posts I thought it was very fitting:
[flash width=480 height=385] http://www.youtube.com/v/8ffl3KxY3g4&hl=en_US&fs=1 [/flash]
nothing is Automatic
I don't think Keith has ever said you just automatically accept everything.
Some people can't seem to get this automatic thing out of their rants.
You can't automatically say a line is never ever never kinked, can't and won't do it.
But you also can't say every object along a line kinks it.
There are cases where a good faith retracement did not have absolutely mathematically perfect results with a row of monuments perfectly lined up. The fact is people use physical objects they can see not imaginary mathematical points they can't see. Besides my imaginary mathematical point might be different from your imaginary mathematical point. But if we both measure to the same physical monument then we know the monument is a concrete entity but our measurements might vary slightly. If the monuments have been used and relied upon then you better take Justice Cooley's advice and think long and hard before you disturb that.
