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Thread of River

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(@hillsidesurveyor)
Posts: 95
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Topic starter
 

The western boundary of a parcel of land I am currently surveying in the great state of Iowa is the center of a non meandered river. From reviewing historical photos from the present back to the 1930s it appears that this river is quite active, prone to flooding and changes its course quite often. Within the last 10 years two islands have began to appear in the middle of the river along the western boundary of the parcel I am surveying. The islands have gradually increased in size over the years and consists of sandy and rocky soil.

If the boundary is the center of the river, would the boundary line split the islands in the middle of the river or would the boundary line follow the center of the main flow of the river??ÿ For instance the majority of the flow of the river is on the westerly side of the island, with a smaller flow being on the easterly side of the island. Would the boundary line then follow the center of the larger flow area or would the boundary line be midway between the banks of the river?

Thanks in advance for any insight you are able to offer on this.

?ÿ

 
Posted : 07/06/2018 11:29 am
(@bill93)
Posts: 9834
 

Title says "Thread" and post says "center."?ÿ Are they the same thing??ÿ I thought the thread was the line along which the last water would flow if it dried up, and that may not be the center between the banks.

 
Posted : 07/06/2018 11:50 am
(@briniker)
Posts: 59
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Bill93 - read up on thread of river vs thalweg of river.

 
Posted : 07/06/2018 12:11 pm
(@peter-ehlert)
Posts: 2951
 
Posted by: briniker

Bill93 - read up on thread of river vs thalweg of river.

I believe that depends on the jurisdiction: statute and case law, @hillsidesurveyor where is this? I think it matters.

 
Posted : 07/06/2018 2:56 pm
(@hillsidesurveyor)
Posts: 95
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Topic starter
 

The land is in Iowa.

All I have been able to find so far is that the rule of thumb is to generally follow the thread or center of the river, but if the thalweg differs from the thread by a large portion then the line may follow the thalweg.

?ÿ

So about as clear as mud.

 
Posted : 07/06/2018 3:15 pm
(@aliquot)
Posts: 2318
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I don't know anything about Iowa state law, but generally the thalweg is the boundary within navigable rivers, it is the center of the deepest or main navigable channel. Thread and centerline are different. Thread, like someone else said is where the last of the water would be, centerline is usually the medial line, but other definitions have been used. See the BLM manual for how to calculate the medial line.?ÿ

Are you sure the island formed out of the river, and its not just a new channel?

?ÿ

 
Posted : 07/06/2018 5:52 pm
(@a-harris)
Posts: 8761
 

Is it an island with vegetation or a sandbar that has formed between the original banks that will be underwater as the water level rises.

Soil will accumulate where there is a rock formation across a river and create shoals and there can be a channel for water to flow or in other instances the shoals will serve as an emergency spillway for the river.

What you describe as the island, one side will carry the main flow of the river and that would probably be considered the thalwag.

The other side would probably be where the water is flowing slower and sediment is growing in size.

Locally there is an abundant supply of sandy loam along our rivers and there is constant changing in the size and locations of sandbars.

 
Posted : 07/06/2018 6:58 pm
(@hillsidesurveyor)
Posts: 95
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Topic starter
 

A Harris,

The islands are sandbars that would be covered with water in the event of a flood when the river rises, although one of the sandbars is nearly an acre in size.

 
Posted : 08/06/2018 3:15 am
(@duane-frymire)
Posts: 1924
 

If the Islands are truly in the middle, then owners on each side of the river would seem to each own half according to this:

https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=10513768138294353483&q=thread+of+the+stream&hl=en&as_sdt=4,16

?ÿ

 
Posted : 08/06/2018 3:27 am
(@peter-ehlert)
Posts: 2951
 

Great citation Duane.
OP said "non meandered river" so maybe it is not Navigable ...

scratching my head over here

 
Posted : 08/06/2018 6:02 am
(@aliquot)
Posts: 2318
Noble Member Registered
 
Posted by: Duane Frymire

If the Islands are truly in the middle, then owners on each side of the river would seem to each own half according to this:

https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=10513768138294353483&q=thread+of+the+stream&hl=en&as_sdt=4,16

?ÿ

This was a navigable river. The same reasoning would apply if the correct boundary was the medial line, but not if it was the thread.

 
Posted : 08/06/2018 6:25 am
(@duane-frymire)
Posts: 1924
 

I saw that.?ÿ But the rules in the case should be the same whether state or private ownership of the bed.?ÿ At least that's my theory:)?ÿ Didn't come across a private owned bed of stream case in my quick search.

 
Posted : 08/06/2018 6:28 am
(@a-harris)
Posts: 8761
 
Thalweg max velocity
thalweg FCV fig05
 
Posted : 08/06/2018 6:39 am
(@bill93)
Posts: 9834
 

Unfortunately, like many things in law, there are conflicting definitions.?ÿ I've looked around a bit and find "thread of stream" defined as midpoint between banks, position of fastest current, and deepest part.

Iowa seems to use "thread" as meaning center.

Some cases are at:

https://www.casemine.com/search/us?q=thread+of+a+stream&sort=&motionType=&motionOutcome=&motiontyp=all&court=Iowa&court=Iowa+Ct.+App.

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Encyclopedia of Iowa Law, 1914, p. 585 (pdf p. 610) found at:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/53ab0c83e4b000cf784287fe/t/5aa3d6688165f533f6fdc8c7/1520686698543/4401+Table+of+Contents.pdf

says that if the stream is not navigable, the boundary is the thread of the stream, except if it was meandered in the GLO survey, then the boundary is the edge of the water (high or low water not specified).?ÿ If it is navigable the boundary is the high water mark.?ÿ ...?ÿ By the thread of the stream is meant the middle of the current.

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https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/147/1/case.html?ÿ?ÿ Iowa v Illinois says that "thread of the stream" is the middle of the channel, and if more than one, the middle of the most navigated one.?ÿ Then it confuses things by saying

"Where a navigable river forms the boundary of conterminous states, the middle of the channel or thalweg is generally taken as the line of separation between the two states,

---------

The fact that Iowa and Nebraska had differing definitions was a factor in the Carter Lake case.

https://books.google.com/books?id=KwVuDQAAQBAJ

This site?ÿ http://nebraskasurveyor.com/rip-thr.html?ÿ?ÿ quotes cases, which seem to equate middle to thalweg, which seems to be a minority position among definitions.

The thread or center of a channel, as the term is employed, must be the line which would give the owners on either side access to the water, whatever its stage might be, and particularly at its lowest flow. Monument Farms, Inc. v. Daggett, 2 Neb. App. 988, 520 N.W.2d 556 (1994); State v. Ecklund, 147 Neb. 508, 23 N.W.2d 782 (1946). In other words, the thread of the stream is the deepest groove or trench in the bed of a river channel, the last part of the bed to run dry. Where the thread of a stream is the boundary between estates and that stream has two channels, the thread of the main channel is the boundary between the estates. See also Hardt v. Orr, 142 Neb. 460, 6 N.W.2d 589 (1942).

 
Posted : 08/06/2018 7:55 am
(@bill93)
Posts: 9834
 

Neilsen v Stratbucker, Iowa 1982, discusses islands

https://www.casemine.com/judgement/us/5914c3d6add7b049347c96f2

as does Jeffry v Grosvener, Iowa 1968

https://www.casemine.com/judgement/us/5914c814add7b049347e786f

US v Wilson, 1981 (islands in Missouri River)

https://www.casemine.com/judgement/us/5914918badd7b0493458a2c8

and Mather v State, Iowa 1972,

https://www.casemine.com/judgement/us/59149767add7b049345f2e08

I hope something in this list is useful to you.?ÿ There are more cases to be found on that site.

 
Posted : 08/06/2018 8:12 am
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