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This property....AGAIN???

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Dan Patterson
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A client whom I have done many jobs for and always gotten paid promptly has been trying to get me to survey this one lot for about 2 years now. It is a boundary and topographic survey for design and there are going to be some variances, etc required to get this thing to be a buildable lot.

Initially he gave my price to the party that was actually paying for it and they found someone to do it for less than half of what I wanted. Needless to say, they are having problems working off of this "survey", and I've been asked to come to the rescue. They want a price just to do the topo now on the portion of the lot that's going to be developed.

I told him that while, technically, I could rely on the other survey for the boundary and just tie into it and add the topo I was not sure if I was comfortable doing that under the circumstances. The current survey shows zero corners being set or found, with no corner waiver note as required by statute. In addition to its poor appearance and glaring violations of code, it just doesn't seem reliable apart from those things. I don't want to rely on the boundary, because I am not sure I can trust it.

I guess I will just give him the price to redo the whole thing, which is what I have done every 5-6 months over the last 2 years....

 
Posted : February 12, 2016 8:24 am
FL/GA PLS
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"I told him that while, technically, I could rely on the other survey for the boundary and just tie into it and add the topo I was not sure if I was comfortable doing that under the circumstances."

By doing that you are subjecting yourself to unnecessary liability.

"I guess I will just give him the price to redo the whole thing, which is what I have done every 5-6 months over the last 2 years...."

I agree, but would adjust cost to today's prices. You have to convince your client it's less expensive to do things right the first time rather than suffer through unforseen problems caused by a "not so good" inexpensive survey.

Good luck!

 
Posted : February 12, 2016 8:35 am
Dan Patterson
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FL/GA PLS., post: 357608, member: 379 wrote: You have to convince your client it's less expensive to do things right the first time rather than suffer through unforseen problems caused by a "not so good" inexpensive survey.

Good luck!

I think he understood that, but his client didn't. Now they've been screwing around with this thing since early 2014 and it could have just been done.

 
Posted : February 12, 2016 8:44 am
a-harris
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I would have to let the client know that the cost of living has gone up some since 2014.

Then there is the additional cost of cleaning up another surveyor's mess.

😉

 
Posted : February 12, 2016 8:50 am
MightyMoe
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it's tough to do a topo without relating it to the boundary, for building purposes it's basically part of the topo, you're correct balking about doing it that way.

 
Posted : February 12, 2016 9:15 am

jph
 jph
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I'd give two prices, one for the whole thing, and one for topo, with no boundary lines.

Sure, it would've been best if they'd gotten you from the beginning to do it, but at this point I don't think that there's anything that prevents you from doing a topo without doing the boundary survey. Do it on assumed coordinates, and give them your CAD dwg, and let them twist/rotate it into place, using buildings, fences, poles, etc. This is unless you think that at some point the whole thing, including the boundary, will be misrepresented by others as being entirely your product.

 
Posted : February 12, 2016 9:18 am
peter-ehlert
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Dan Patterson, post: 357605, member: 1179 wrote: A client whom I have done many jobs for and always gotten paid promptly has been trying to get me to survey this one lot for about 2 years now. It is a boundary and topographic survey for design and there are going to be some variances, etc required to get this thing to be a buildable lot.

Initially he gave my price to the party that was actually paying for it and they found someone to do it for less than half of what I wanted. Needless to say, they are having problems working off of this "survey", and I've been asked to come to the rescue. They want a price just to do the topo now on the portion of the lot that's going to be developed.

I told him that while, technically, I could rely on the other survey for the boundary and just tie into it and add the topo I was not sure if I was comfortable doing that under the circumstances. The current survey shows zero corners being set or found, with no corner waiver note as required by statute. In addition to its poor appearance and glaring violations of code, it just doesn't seem reliable apart from those things. I don't want to rely on the boundary, because I am not sure I can trust it.

I guess I will just give him the price to redo the whole thing, which is what I have done every 5-6 months over the last 2 years....

another option: just topo the development area, and Only provide that topo... with Zero ties or reference to their other borked survey. That is probably Not what they want, and that is Probably not what the local agency will accept to get the variances.
Prepare a two part proposal:
1. topo only (clearly defined as having no relationship to previous work)
2. topo with correct boundary (and again with no reference to the bargain priced tissue paper they already have)
Include a simple cut and paste of your reservations stated above would be appropriate. (get it on paper)
That way you are responsive and have proposed on what they are asking for (rather then what they Need)

PS: edit, JPH types faster than me.

 
Posted : February 12, 2016 9:32 am
Tom Adams
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Once you show property lines on a plat, it doesn't matter what kind of disclaimer you put on it, they will absolutely be used by the client as property lines. Not only will it be used, but they will say that is where the land surveyor told them the lines were....and they would be right. And they would have the sketch to prove it. I've seen it myself more than once.

That is one reason I think that mortgage surveys or "ILC"s are inherently bad. It doesn't matter all that fancy fine-print talk.

If you do a topo without showing property lines, they can use the power-pole and the fence corner you shot to orient the drawing.

 
Posted : February 12, 2016 9:37 am
jph
 jph
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Tom Adams, post: 357625, member: 7285 wrote: If you do a topo without showing property lines, they can use the power-pole and the fence corner you shot to orient the drawing.

That's what I'd expect them to do, and I don't see anything wrong with that. Have them sign your transmittal that you provided them topo, hard and/or digital copy, and make sure it states explicitly that you provided topo only, and that no boundary survey or lines were provided by you.

 
Posted : February 12, 2016 10:03 am
Dan Patterson
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So should I shoot the corners that he set.....I mean found......I mean.....never mind.

I do kind of like the idea of itemizing the topo and boundary as separate parts of the same proposal. Sometimes I do that anyway to show cost. Forget tying into the old boundary....it's not an option as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe I will try the two-pronged approach. Problem is that they'll have me do the topo only and then want me to do the boundary later when they realize need it. The price will go up from what's on the proposal though, because I would be done with the other fieldwork and that would require a separate mobilization. Gonna be fun...

 
Posted : February 12, 2016 10:20 am

peter-ehlert
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OK, three part proposal.
1. topo only
2. topo and boundary at the same time.
3. boundary as a separate effort. (that obviously will Not be 2-1)

 
Posted : February 12, 2016 10:53 am
Tom Adams
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Hey Dan,
Could you locate the existing pins and any other boundary evidence in the course of your survey (and even use existing pins to occupy as the case may be, but just don't show them in your topo? Perhaps having a lot of the evidence located already, can help you reduce field time if/when you come back out. (you could already have something to calculate from to look for more evidence before you do go back out).

 
Posted : February 12, 2016 10:54 am
Dan Patterson
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Topic starter
 

Tom Adams, post: 357640, member: 7285 wrote: Hey Dan,
Could you locate the existing pins and any other boundary evidence in the course of your survey (and even use existing pins to occupy as the case may be, but just don't show them in your topo? Perhaps having a lot of the evidence located already, can help you reduce field time if/when you come back out. (you could already have something to calculate from to look for more evidence before you do go back out).

That's what I would try to do, but I have a feeling the guy who did this survey didn't set any corners or find any. There's gotta be some evidence around, and I'd probably tie into the adjoining control on the road frontage at the very least in the course of the topo. That way if I had to go back and do a real boundary I could stake into the other corners and look for them.

 
Posted : February 12, 2016 4:54 pm
Rich.
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We never do topo without boundary. The boundaries show on the topo so we always have to tie in.

Well I shouldn't say never. We have done a little area of a golf course one time without boundary. But that was in the middle of the course hundreds of feet from a boundary.

And we never add topo (or anything) to another's survey. Although NY law does say we can(which it shouldn't imo) we never do. All our own or nothing at all.

 
Posted : February 12, 2016 7:53 pm