This is a local urban area we have the privilege of spending a considerable amount of time in, and the stories keep on keepin' on. Some of those stories are not necessarily survey related, but the ones that are seem to be equally as puzzling. Just when I think, "What else could happen..." it usually happens. Here is the most recent survey related "hmmm"
Here we have a representation of what is found in this area on a daily basis. Typically, without having a calc to get within reason +/- 1.5' you would be poking holes all over the place digging through metal who knows what that has been dumped or otherwise buried on every corner of each lot of each block.... No kidding. The two at the upper left come close a guesstimated position, but the bottom right is a 1/2" IP next to an old chain link fence post. If depth shows the age, the bottom right is more indicative that the original parcel had been laid out with that pipe and a fence put to it. Now the particular corner is part of a group of lots strung together to be divvied up and built on.
Next we have the sidewalk to no where. This is the south side of the same block from photo above. Plat shows 30' R/W, on the south end of the block where the sidewalk is. The back of walk is +/- 30' from visual CL. Fence and Power poles along this street were set to 25' R/W. The fence veers very north... Where the fence intersects the next we found a pipe similar to one on northerly end of the block R/W, but the pipe is set to 25' R/W and the fence is +/- 5' north. Note, the dug up spots at both sides of the sidewalk along the calc'd line, no dice 1.5' deep.
Last but not least, the hole in the road with the upside down traffic cone stuck in it. This is from the same street as the block noted above but a block west on a survey with pretty much equal problems... Not exactly survey related but just something you don't see everyday.
Brian McEachern, post: 451338, member: 9299 wrote: This is a local urban area we have the privilege of spending a considerable amount of time in, and the stories keep on keepin' on. Some of those stories are not necessarily survey related, but the ones that are seem to be equally as puzzling. Just when I think, "What else could happen..." it usually happens. Here is the most recent survey related "hmmm"
Here we have a representation of what is found in this area on a daily basis. Typically, without having a calc to get within reason +/- 1.5' you would be poking holes all over the place digging through metal who knows what that has been dumped or otherwise buried on every corner of each lot of each block.... No kidding. The two at the upper left come close a guesstimated position, but the bottom right is a 1/2" IP next to an old chain link fence post. If depth shows the age, the bottom right is more indicative that the original parcel had been laid out with that pipe and a fence put to it. Now the particular corner is part of a group of lots strung together to be divvied up and built on.
Next we have the sidewalk to no where. This is the south side of the same block from photo above. Plat shows 30' R/W, on the south end of the block where the sidewalk is. The back of walk is +/- 30' from visual CL. Fence and Power poles along this street were set to 25' R/W. The fence veers very north... Where the fence intersects the next we found a pipe similar to one on northerly end of the block R/W, but the pipe is set to 25' R/W and the fence is +/- 5' north. Note, the dug up spots at both sides of the sidewalk along the calc'd line, no dice 1.5' deep.
Last but not least, the hole in the road with the upside down traffic cone stuck in it. This is from the same street as the block noted above but a block west on a survey with pretty much equal problems... Not exactly survey related but just something you don't see everyday.
I hear you. Crew reconned a site and found the survey from a few years ago called a broken off water shut off a pipe found, and a broken off bound found was a hunk of asphalt. Thank goodness I have good, intelligent crew chiefs.
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I??m so glad I??m retired and done surveying. Ridiculous pin cushions, it??s a blight on the profession.
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"The one with old flaggin" has been many a PC's motto
The PP is the corner......
They are gonna have to dig up a lot more road to fix that leak.
I'm curious. Do you have a governing authority that surveyors or more pertinent their surveys, are responsible to?
If that happened here offending surveyor(s) would be hauled before the Sanhedrin, be ordered to fix the problem, and be subject to ongoing audits - checks of their surveys.
Ultimate disgrace would be revoke licence.
Such things are enshrined in Acts of Parliament.
Sloppy surveying is taken very seriously here and that attitude is supported by the profession.
Well based on some of the trees and weather in the photos I would guess you might be in FL where finding surveying oddities is not surprising. In SW FL, I've seen some stuff that is weird and embarrassing. Irons and PKs at war in close quarters for the true position or the found grounding rod staked and painted as a corner most commonly...
DAMN MATH!!!! Batteries must have been dead in the metal detector.
Things that make you Hmmm
[MEDIA=youtube]XF2ayWcJfxo[/MEDIA]
D Bendell, post: 451400, member: 12975 wrote: Well based on some of the trees and weather in the photos I would guess you might be in FL where finding surveying oddities is not surprising. In SW FL, I've seen some stuff that is weird and embarrassing. Irons and PKs at war in close quarters for the true position or the found grounding rod staked and painted as a corner most commonly...
This series of projects is in Riviera Beach, FL. Home of the Port of Palm Beach. Originally this area was platted in the early 1920's and there aren't two blocks that agree north, south, east, or west. We recently surveyed the block just north of this one and I was able to come up with a decent resolution. Working off of that job, the block to south doesn't agree by feet. Similar on the other blocks we have done here recently. No platted CL, and very few block corners left. Very tough place to work... Funny you mention a grounding rod though. We found a smooth, steel rod at one of the "R/W" intersections, and it could have been easily dismissed as a grounding rod, however, there was no wire, lead, or pole near by for the grounding rod to ground. Never found one like it, other than the damn ground rods in the vicinity. Yesterday, we also found a threaded mobile home anchor among an IRC and an IP.
Further searching today was to no avail.... Met with only more junk between fences and my favorite type of fence protection. Razor blade barbed wire! This is surrounding an outparcel not included in our project.
Brian McEachern, post: 451451, member: 9299 wrote: This series of projects is in Riviera Beach, FL. Home of the Port of Palm Beach. Originally this area was platted in the early 1920's
Was it all conveyed via one whole plat ?
R.J. Schneider, post: 451456, member: 409 wrote: Was it all conveyed via one whole plat ?
This area yes, "Inlet Grove". Blocks and blocks. No copy handy and theres not one online to reference. If I get a chance I'll scan a portion of it to share.
I love my job. Repeat over and over.
R.J. Schneider, post: 451456, member: 409 wrote: Was it all conveyed via one whole plat ?
Brian McEachern, post: 451459, member: 9299 wrote: This area yes, "Inlet Grove". Blocks and blocks. No copy handy and theres not one online to reference. If I get a chance I'll scan a portion of it to share.
I should rephrase that the plat of "Inlet Grove" encompasses most of the city Riviera Beach, however our current projects are not conveyed as plats within themselves, but instead as individual lot and block.
Roughly, this the project: The open lines are the outparcels, though they are surveyed by default. Also, it seems that the middle six lots at one time had homes on them.
Some are quick to say that these "multiple item" corners or pincushions are the result of the surveyor installing them. I find this stuff every day and it could be any number of people pounding their own reminder as to the location of their "real corner." If I find two bars both with flagging or a cap on them, then I feel the outrage. People pound in wild stuff.. That is the best one I have so far is the plastic peg in concrete guy. He stores the originals in the garage. Sometimes, nothing makes sense at all.
Brian McEachern, post: 451338, member: 9299 wrote: Where the fence intersects the next we found a pipe similar to one on northerly end of the block R/W, but the pipe is set to 25' R/W and the fence is +/- 5' north.
Was the street created with the plat ? If so look at the platted row, this will tell everything. Sometimes over the years streets are widened and the old irons may still be there, it's good evidence. Do the two old pipes - the distance between them - fit the dimensions of the original plat ?
R.J. Schneider, post: 451547, member: 409 wrote: Was the street created with the plat ? If so look at the platted row, this will tell everything. Sometimes over the years streets are widened and the old irons may still be there, it's good evidence. Do the two old pipes - the distance between them - fit the dimensions of the original plat ?
Was finally able to measure to the pipes I was referring to. Platted distance between the right of ways is 259.6, and pipe to pipe measured 267.04. +/- 7.4' long, however the pipe on the north end that was painted and on the same fence line is about 1.5' north of the actual fence end. Dug all around the fence, and filled in a huge hole. Still 1' somewhere, as referenced in the photo with the 4 points... Next step is metal detecting old CL points and breaking out the chisel. This area is in redevelopment and most of the roads have been freshly re-done, along with the R/W...
I'd forgotten that Florida has, and uses, quite a bit of centerline control. If that is a legitimate option, as in the centerline control is a recognized network, I would use that to hopefully define the block. We have centerline control in older parts of Houston. It's hit or miss as to whether it's still there or not.
Looking at that aerial photo, I see some interior corners of lots that seem relatively unscathed, there might be a clue in some of the interior corners.
That would probably be some local knowledge though. Did the original surveyor of that time stake all the lot corners or just the block corners that are now missing ?
R.J. Schneider, post: 451745, member: 409 wrote:
Looking at that aerial photo, I see some interior corners of lots that seem relatively unscathed, there might be a clue in some of the interior corners.
That would probably be some local knowledge though. Did the original surveyor of that time stake all the lot corners or just the block corners that are now missing ?
- Interior lots at one time had houses, since demolished.
Got a hold of a digital copy of the plat to share, attached is the pdf with the full plat and "zoomability" - below is an image of the majority of the plat. At the extremities of the south line, all there was was a "stake" on the south line of "North St." which is now E. 14th St., and "inlet Ave." is now E. 15th, Oak St. Is now Ave. C, and Montreal is now U.S. Fed. HWY 1 and the R/W has increased on both sides by about 15'. We also surveyed block 8 recently, as well as part of block 3, and block 6. Additionally we have done two blocks directly south of this page of the plat, same Inlet Grove however. No two blocks agree, and given the lack of angular reference, age of layout, and construction it is easy to see that over the years some hodgepodgery has gone on...
Brian McEachern, post: 451736, member: 9299 wrote: Was finally able to measure to the pipes I was referring to. Platted distance between the right of ways is 259.6, and pipe to pipe measured 267.04. +/- 7.4' long
Brian McEachern, post: 452824, member: 9299 wrote: and the R/W has increased on both sides by about 15'.
hmmmm...