I think this issue in Florida, while seemingly dormant now, is merely tabled for later gnawing. We will see what happens in committee tomorrow.
I have been critical of the information flow from FSMS on this board, and feel I should step up here and issue a public Thank You for the work they have done.
It's a fine line to tread between keeping members informed and not sounding like Chicken Little.
For those Florida Surveyors that are not members, or members of other smaller localized groups, I ask you, did your attorneys or lobbyists inform you that this issue even existed?
Do you have attorneys or lobbyists looking out for you?
Do you maintain any connections with the movers and shakers in the Capitol?
Did you only hear about the issue from those of us relaying the FSMS warnings here on www.surveyorconnect.com?
You may have felt that the cost of membership didn't make economic sense when your work load fell through the floor. I've had the same feelings, but I tell you what, this episode has completely changed my outlook. Given the new governors mandate to cut government at almost every turn, we need to be aware of this now more than ever.
I'll be happily renewing my membership and urge you to do the same.
Kudos again to Mrs. Evers, her staff and the attorneys of FSMS for their appropriate and successful response to this attack.
www.fsms.org
Watch the video from the March 17th meeting and see how these things work.
There are those who wonder whether ACSM/NSPS are doing anything for them and I will not comment about that right now. But, I will say that any licensed surveyor really does need to support their state association/society and become a member.
While there are national issues, you are licensed by your state and every state has specific issues of its own of which you need to be aware and have a significant lobbying organization when necessary.
I just checked out their online application in word format.
I need a sponsor? Someone to say I'm truly interested in furthering surveying?
Got to say I feel insulted. Let's lobby for that to change.
Mark,
I've been a member for so long, I don't remember that, but maybe it's some sort of legal reason? Now that I think about it for a minute, it may have more to do with a benefit for the current member of FSMS than any real barrier to joining... I've never recruited anyone, but there might be an incentive program to bring in new members.
Heck, I'll sponsor you and anyone else that wants to sign up!
Andy
There are 2 other Surveyor Societies in Florida, 1 of them also has lobbying influence ...
that's great, did they know about this legislation? were you forewarned?
I don't know how much they were aware of, or when
> There are 2 other Surveyor Societies in Florida, 1 of them also has lobbying influence ...
Which are??? I'd like their web address.
I believe there is a reference spot on the TSPS (Texas Society) application also. The two reasons I have seen for it are:
1. To let the reference know someone has joined so they will make sure and get the person involved.
2. For campaign drives and to see if there is a more effective way of recruiting
If the question is actually turning people away from the organization then we might want to remove that, since the answer is probably not that important.
James Redmon
I only know of this one. They renamed recently
I would join FSMS, but I don't have time to golf...:-P
Seriously tho, FSMS is geared one way, it's not viewed as wholly receptive to the concerns of the small business Surveyor, at least, not in my region. Ever since I can remember reading their early news letters, their editors stressed "golf, golf, golf" as a way to stay on the up and up with fellow professionals in other fields & Govt. Trouble is, when you run a small Survey firm down here, there isn't time for all that...
I was a member once but I left for the very reason you mentioned. The state society is not small business friendly at all. At the time I was active, the leadership was elitist, arrogant and did not give a rats ass about helping the small one crew shops like the one I worked for. They only sucked up to the large firms in order to pull in those "sustaining firm" bucks.
Maybe things have changed. I don't know and I don't care. I will never return to the dark side.
If they need lobby funds to help keep us from being surgically removed by politicians, then they should offer a separate "Surveyor lobby" fund that doesn't require full blown membership. Otherwise, I for one really don't like going to their meetings and pretending to care about their day-to-day Survey concerns that are mostly if not totally unrelated to mine...
> I only know of this one. They renamed recently
>
>> http://surveyors.org/br >
How legit is that group? I've never heard of them.
Just some thoughts here. I am not in Florida, and I have weighed in earlier.
Golf, golf, golf "might" be a way to raise money for the organization without raising dues including dues for small outfits or surveyors who don't own a business at all. Of course, if they only lose money with their golf outings, or if they force members to pay for golf even if they don't go, that would be (is) another matter.
Fractured state societies is a way of dividing oneself and letting them all be conquered, if you think about it. It would be much better to get involved with the primary organization and work and vote toward eliminating the elitism - if that is the case. It might also be wise to get involved with you chapter and encourage them to bring your local concerns to the state representatives.
I don't know (again) about Florida, but around these parts, many surveyor gripe about the "elitism" of the state-level directors, but when you ask the same guys to run for directors or officers, they refuse or can't or don't have time. It is many times the only ones willing to run for office that become officers. You might consider that it is wiser to be a negative voice as a member than as a nonmember.
My apologies if earlier posts sounded like I was ragging on some people, but I see things from a different side of the aisle than a lot of you guys might. I have been involved with the Colorado organization at the chapter and at the state level for over 20 years. I have heard people say that they won't join because the PLSC supported ILC's 30 years ago, or because their father quit in 1969 because of what some jerk said or did. Or that the organization supports four-year degree requirements and they don't. I hate to tell you all this, but the State societies don't (per se) support continuing education because it means more money for them. Guess what: those officers and directors don't get paid to be officers and directors (at least not here). They are doing it voluntarily without pay. Some of you that think some kind of money or power are motivation, are sadly mistaken (again in my opinion).
I think those excuses are almost opposite of why you should be involved. If the organization does things you disagree with, you should work to change it. A bill like what was going down in Florida is exactly why you need support of a society that represents all of the surveyors in your state.
A little bit of rambling here, but perhaps some food for thought.
Tom
An important point about groups like the link you provided... They would have seen a HUGE jump in business if this bill had passed. Think about all us PSM's swimming around trying to re-legitimize ourselves in the eyes of the public. Hate to think about it, but we all would have been clamoring for something like that to fill the void.
Of course, you don't see a PEEP about the legislation on that website! Why would they want to cut their own business model, this would have been something they could only dream about!
Again, I don't think FSMS is perfect, but they do work for us! And I've only been a member for about 12 years, so I don't know all the history. I can tell you that they are responsive to ME, and I have NO crews, do all the field work and drafting myself, and my wife does the billing. I ain't no mover and shaker, and I suck at golf. 😉
I really think you have to ask yourself, did the people that I expect to HELP look out for my interests have the knowledge and skills to do what FSMS did? If the answer to that is no, you really should be joining up.
If you don't like the "sponsor" requirement, I'd say call them up and ask about it. My guess is that it really isn't critical. Let them explain why they do that, you might find you actually agree with the policy.
Andy
Tom,
You need to be here to see it. This current event is one instance in a million, the rest of the time Surveyors in Florida are content having this separation.
The other 2 Councils exist because FSMS doesn't meet their needs. FSMS (in my region anyways) gives one the impression of infallability & absolute certainty about everything they do.
This situation is their image crisis. One can't claim to be all-seeing & also claim to be blindsided like this in the same instance.
FSMS mailing arrived today, that was sent to EVERY SINGLE PSM AND LB in the State, no matter if you were a member of FSMS or not. That's how important this issue is.
I'm must be missing that one from surveyro.org or whatever that site is.. maybe tomorow.
> Tom,
>
> You need to be here to see it. This current event is one instance in a million, the rest of the time Surveyors in Florida are content having this separation.
>
> The other 2 Councils exist because FSMS doesn't meet their needs. FSMS (in my region anyways) gives one the impression of infallability & absolute certainty about everything they do.
>
> This situation is their image crisis. One can't claim to be all-seeing & also claim to be blindsided like this in the same instance.
Mr. Macheteman,
Well, I can't speak for Florida. I can only address what I have seen here and what I read. I know that there are a lot of misconceptions in my own state, and I would bet there also. I would also bet that there are indeed arrogant, and/or elitists in your FSMS organization as well as good, hard-working people much like you who want the best for surveying and the profession in general. But maybe I am wrong. I am certainly not there to see it first hand.
I am confident you will do what you see as best, and I do hope some of this fracture can be eventually ironed out in your state. Thankfully, they have removed Surveyors from their chopping block. I think this would have ramifications all over the country to some extent or another.
Personally, I think it is a big mistake to be fractured like that and i hope it doesn't happen here.
Cripes Macheteman,
That website is Ted Madson's. He was "run out" of Florida decades ago.
Have a great week!
