If they in fact disband Surveying in Florida, I'll be in another State, excited to watch the upcoming "State of Florida vs. United States of America" lawsuit where the Federal Judge rules that the Feds can take any land they want to in Florida "because...Florida disbanded its Surveying regulation...Federal Government has licensed Surveyors, blah blah blah..."
Wow what a bunch of surveyors throwing surveyors under the bus. Don't blame engineers, don't blame republicans, don't blame anyone but your 'self-loathing selves'.
Give me a break guys. It's only the survey societies that are looking out for your interest. The Engineers' societies are looking out for themselves, the republicans are only looking out for themselves (as are the democrats).
It is only your state organization that takes care of survey interests. And do you know why you aren't on their board of directors? I do. You don't run. Some are saying that the "few" who are in the upper eschelon of the organizations are power-hungry, self-serving, narcissists who want some power. That may be the case with some, but I assure, most of those guys are interested in the professions. You want narcissists, go to the republican or democrat partisans.
Why do the majority of surveyors sit around and gripe about what little their survey organization does. Those guys are, (as far as I know) absolute volunteers. If they don't do much, then so be it. They are generally the only ones doing anything. What have you guys done?
Obviously I am only talking to some of the guy here, and not everyone. But mainly the ones who sit around and don't do anything at all and gripe about how no one else is doing it for them.
You need to keep in mind that, comparatively, surveyors do not have a large number of members compared to realtors, lawyers, or engineers. You need to stand together, and actually respect some of the guys who are actually trying to get things done. Nothing at all would happen for the surveyors in your state if it weren't for those few getting together and making it happen.
I say blame the evil republicans, blame the evil democrats, blame anyone who would do away with your profession, and write your congressmen and get together with your fellow surveyors and look out for the interest of your profession. No one else will folks.
Amen to Adam........
.......and to CeeCee above.
There is always strength in numbers......especially in any political process.
FLA surveyors should be getting up off their behinds, talking with the Geologists and Landscape Architects about lobbying the legislature (and the governor's office) from now until the bill is amended.
Pointing fingers at folks you're jealous of isn't going to help.
Since you decided to go there...
So, instead of trying to change things, you opted out?
And now you're going to complain about the leadership?
All due respect adamsurveyor, there are many Surveyors I know that want us to fall under the banner of engineer ... there are Engineering firms that actively lobby to disband us deceptively, behind our backs, rather than have an open discussion about it ... I've seen this coming for awhile. Do you think this is just Florida? It's everywhere. This comes on the heels of Lightsquared inc. getting authority to decide what band our high-grade GPS gets to use, and since they are the ones that will profit from it, we'll have to pay them to use those bands.
Wake up everybody! This is more than just local political dummies voting on something they don't understand.
Amen to Adam........
I already did something about it sicily, I got registered elsewhere. I'll spend my final days here screwing up as many surveys as I can before I go to the other State where I'm licensed 😉 (kidding)
Since you decided to go there...
So tell me......did this terrible 'seminar at sea' raise money for the organization or did it waste membership money. Your implying, obviously, that they wasted membership money. If they in fact raised money, then you should thank them for raising money instead of raising dues. If they lost money, then that is a bad thing....but was the intent to squander it, or was it an idea to gain money for the organization that didn't "float"?
Macheteman,
I agree it is time for your organization and other surveyors to wake up. But it appears to me that you seriously missed my point. As I said before, I would not trust engineers to look out for your best interest. Maybe some are, but, for the most part, engineers are looking out for engineers. That is why, in my opinion, you need to get involved with other surveyors and do what is best for you and your profession. That is the primary reason for your organization. But if you let others take it over, without being involved, that is a bad thing. The guys that take the time to run for office of your organization are the ones that are making things happen. If you disagree with what they are doing, do you think quitting and complaining will resolve it? Had you run for director, do you think you might have a better voice on correcting a bad direction?
Adam, you're in Colorado. Our largest Surveying organization is controlled by Engineers and has been for a long time. Those of us (like myself) that don't agree with this are members of a separate organization. This is entrenched. We lost the battle to Contractors long ago. What's happening now is that engineers are aligning with contractors to wipe us off the map (no pun intended). We're not going to win a lobbying war. My advice to all Florida "Surveyors" is to start thinking about moving to another State. Florida Surveying as a Profession is over.
Macheteman,
Well, you are certainly right that I can't speak for Florida Surveyors. I also recognize that the ratio of Engineers to Surveyors is huge. Please forgive me that I was speaking in general terms and not in Florida-specific terms. I can't argue about your situation. Good luck to you all. I only want the best for this great profession. I can only say that I would encourage anyone to be a part of even a bad organization and vote and work toward your opinion and making it better. From my experience, at least in this state, if you run for office your odds of getting elected are relatively high. There is not a lot of competition (I mean you can lose, I did, but your odds typically good and sometime you have no competition at all). If everyone leaves that is against what the organization is doing, that only empowers them more.
Just some thoughts.
Tom
> Adam, you're in Colorado. Our largest Surveying organization is controlled by Engineers and has been for a long time. Those of us (like myself) that don't agree with this are members of a separate organization. This is entrenched. We lost the battle to Contractors long ago. What's happening now is that engineers are aligning with contractors to wipe us off the map (no pun intended). We're not going to win a lobbying war. My advice to all Florida "Surveyors" is to start thinking about moving to another State. Florida Surveying as a Profession is over.
Unfortunately you are right in that deregulating surveying would benefit contractors, engineers and realtors. The quality of work would be garbage but the realtor wants $50 mortgage surveys, the contractor wants to sign their own as-builts and engineers would like to fully be in charge of topos, design build surveys etc.
That said I would advise every FL surveyor to fight this even if it is against three powerful entities. Do you think the contractors, engineers and realtors in every state won't see what is happening in FL? They will and want the same thing. You can run and keep your profession a little longer but if FL deregulates Tx & AL will follow and like dominoes one by one you will see state follow suit.
We need to stand now or we could lose our profession forever.
Before you take me to the shed, I am involved. I've held every office in our local chapter, including last years president. We hosted the state conference during my last presidency. When I tell you that even FSMS seems to not have known about this, I am sadly not kidding at all. I was at our yearly "tri chapter" meeting just a week ago, and the State president, FSMS director, and three regional directors were present. I sat with our regional director for dinner.
This committee was mentioned in one breath and We were told this was a lot of nothing in the next, nothing to worry about.
We should be able to rely on our state organization, attorney and PAC attorney to keep on top of things, shouldn't we? I will be searching through all my email from FSMS to see if I missed notice of this along the way.
> Either you guys are naive or you have your heads in the sand. Money talks and BS walks. If the Engineers can save money by using an in house tech instead of you guys guess what they'll do?
>
> As far as you know it may have been the engineers who proposed pulling your (land surveyors) professional status. It goes like this, civil engineers are tired of land surveyor certification necessary to do business on projects. They go to legislatures (republicans) and say you guys (land surveyors) are driving up the cost of business due to your certification requirements and what you do is a trade and not a profession. So they propose to pull your license as you are hindering business. But to make it palatable they gather a wide net of hair dressers and the like. Everybody else knows what is going on and hire lobbyists to get themselves off the sh*t list except for the numb nut surveyors who don't know WTF is going on. Most of the other groups are prepared and get off the list (it's a game of musical chairs) but the crap sticks to you guys and off with your license. It's really quite simple, numb nuts. Now try to get a job. Of course its slow!
Does it hurt your head when your tin foil hat gets too tight?
Results of de-regulation:
In the early 1960's, Thalidomide deformities affected more than 10,000 babies, mainly in Europe and Canada, while in the United States, just a few women gave birth to "thalidomide babies." Look it up, I remember it happening, and never forgot the photos of those babies in the headlines of the local newspapers.
That is what happens when regulations brake down.
And as far as "I got the pistols, so I'll keep the Pesos, Yeah and that seems fair." That is primitive, being Irish, I know about guns and politics, in the long run, bigger guns don't win, ask England. Right wins. The sacrifices have been great at times, the struggle long, but 'we shall over come'.
Since you decided to go there...
It IS Not Yet Gone!!! I lodged a protest with Perry. Every other surveyor needs to do the same.
> Before you take me to the shed, I am involved. I've held every office in our local chapter, including last years president. We hosted the state conference during my last presidency. When I tell you that even FSMS seems to not have known about this, I am sadly not kidding at all. I was at our yearly "tri chapter" meeting just a week ago, and the State president, FSMS director, and three regional directors were present. I sat with our regional director for dinner.
>
>
> This committee was mentioned in one breath and We were told this was a lot of nothing in the next, nothing to worry about.
>
>
> We should be able to rely on our state organization, attorney and PAC attorney to keep on top of things, shouldn't we? I will be searching through all my email from FSMS to see if I missed notice of this along the way.
We should be able to rely on them but they obviously failed us. If cosmetologist and barbers had enough foresight to get themselves off the bill but surveyors did not something is drastically wrong with them. I know you can't change horses in the middle of the race but after this surveyors need to move from the board of agriculture and back with the better business bureau (I never understood the switch) and get a good lobbyist.
Since you decided to go there...
"So, instead of trying to change things, you opted out?
And now you're going to complain about the leadership?"
What leadership ? Read all the posts before jumping to your preconceived conclusions. 😉
Have a great weekend!
Since you decided to go there...
"Your implying, obviously, that they wasted membership money."
Yes I am.
Have a great weekend!
Any of you other Florida guys receive the FSM PAC membership thing in the mail today? Incredible timing!
The letter starts out with "As we get closer to the 2011 Legislative Session you can be assured that the Surveying and Mapping Profession will have a strong, effective presence and voice."
Yeah, thanks for that...
Andy K
Andy, precisely for this reason I never joined FSMS. I have suspected for a long time that they are part of the problem. Deregulation & decertification are two completely different things. What will happen is that lawsuits will occur & reach the Federal level. When they do, a Federal Judge will rule that since the State decertified their Surveyors but the Federal Government has certified Surveyors (CFeds), the Federal process WILL TAKEOVER ALL ASPECTS OF LAND SURVEYING, INCLUDING LOCAL LAND DISPUTES.
What does that mean for contractors, engineers, and realtors? THEY WILL HAVE TO WAIT FOR WASHINGTON DC TO GET ANSWERS. They think they're getting $50 surveys but will in fact get $1000 surveys and 6 month waits, and possibly Federal fines.
Did you know that the BLM has their own title process? It's not fair and is subject to BLM office interpretation of FEDERAL, not State, CASE LAW. Bye bye title agents.
Lest i mention how drastically this will affect State soveriegnty. No Federal Judge will rule against a Federal Surveyor versus a State "Geomatics Engineer". No Judge will accept expert testimony from a "Geomatics Engineer" when Federal Surveyors are available.
