Source for Historic USGS Maps?

Go to the USGS website for free historical & modern quads:

http://www.usgs.gov/pubprod/

The modern quads are really nice because they are layered PDF's including ortho photos.

Mark Silver at igage in salt lake. He's got as many quads as usgs.

Nearly 30 years ago I purchased a couple of very early USGS maps showing portions of a nearby county. I didn't need them. It was just a matter of discovering that they were still available. Apparently KGS never threw away any "poor sellers" to make room for anything else. I'm thinking these were dated 1910 or a bit earlier. They were for an area that was riddled with coal, lead and zinc mines. There were railroads running all sorts of places and little towns (mining camps) every two miles or so. It was like stepping into an entirely different dimension. One town would be almost entirely Italians and the next Albanians and the next Sicilians and the next Czechs and so forth. Today there is an annual celebration held not far from there each September known as Little Balkan Days to recognize the diverse ethnicities that settled the area to work the mines.

> Go to the USGS website for free historical & modern quads:
>
>> http://www.usgs.gov/pubprod/

Yes, I checked there first. They have the 1942 edition, but from the 1909-1910 date of the control "survey" by reconnaissance methods, I'm thinking that there has to be an edition around 1912 or so.

According to Riley Moore Moffat (Map Index of Topographic Quadrangles of the United States, 1882-1940):

Franklin Settlement, Texas 15' Topographic, Editions 1910, 1930, 1934

28°30' N x 98°30' W @ Southeast corner.

Like Shawn said above, Mark Silver may have one (or more).

Loyal

> According to Riley Moore Moffat (Map Index of Topographic Quadrangles of the United States, 1882-1940):
>
> Franklin Settlement, Texas 15' Topographic, Editions 1910, 1930, 1934

Thanks, yes, the 1910 edition is the one I'm looking for. Later editions were apparently just revisions of the 1910 map, but it isn't clear what was newly compiled detail and what was the original base map from 1910.

You can reach Mark through his website:

http://www.igage.com/

The vertical control for the Franklin Settlement Quad is described in:

USGS Bulletin 883e Spirit Leveling in South-Central Texas 1896-1938

http://pubs.usgs.gov/bul/0883e/report.pdf

Loyal

> The vertical control for the Franklin Settlement Quad is described in:

Yes, thanks, but in this case what I'm after is the planimetric detail as it appears on the 1910 edition of the map, in particular the roads. The 1930's edition of the quad sheet shows certain roads in place that were most likely there in 1910 and doesn't show other roads opened in about 1925, so my guess is that the main revisions were just to add the state highways to the 1910 edition. Finding a copy of the 1910 edition would remove all doubt.

Roger that!

I have igage's Histortic Map Editions of Utah & Wyoming (need to get Nevada this fall too), and find the historic QUADS to be invaluable in my work. It's almost like having a time machine... especially when combined with OLD aerial photos and other such treasures in digital form.

Loyal

Is there a possibility that the 1918 USA COE Miguel map would be of any help?

Hi Kent,

By chance, as mentioned below, I do have a sizable collection of US topographic maps. (Probably around 200,000+; as we say "more or less".)

And by further chance, I am at the secret location of the 'Map Shed' right now.

I just pulled the Texas historic 15-minute map trays and am searching them now. I will report on my findings in an hour or two.

And, I suppose later this weekend, I should write a short note and description of my holdings. Everyone will find it amusing, depressing, and if nothing better a great line when your wife complains about your collections. You can always reply "it could be a lot worse, I could have a quarter million map sheets."

Yes, I realize that if anyone else did this, they would be crazy.

Mark

> By chance, as mentioned below, I do have a sizable collection of US topographic maps. (Probably around 200,000+; as we say "more or less".)
>
> And by further chance, I am at the secret location of the 'Map Shed' right now.
>
> I just pulled the Texas historic 15-minute map trays and am searching them now. I will report on my findings in an hour or two.

Wow, 200,000 topo maps is beyond impressive. If you have the 15-minute "Franklin Settlement, 1910" quadrangle, my mind will be even more boggled.

> Is there a possibility that the 1918 USA COE Miguel map would be of any help?

I'm not sure, so I suppose that means there is a possibility. A waterway known as Miguel Creek runs across the 15' USGS "Franklin Settlement" quadrangle.

> And, I suppose later this weekend, I should write a short note and description of my holdings. Everyone will find it amusing, depressing, and if nothing better a great line when your wife complains about your collections. You can always reply "it could be a lot worse, I could have a quarter million map sheets."
>

and now we know the real purpose of the new NSA facility out your way. It's just to keep the iGage topo map repository.

Hmm, no "Franklin" maps. At all. Which surprises me, because I also did not find a paper copy of the GeoPDF that USGS has in their historical collection:

http://ims.er.usgs.gov/gda_services/download?item_id=5686687

But it was a grand time looking through what I do have. And it looks like there is fairly good selection of 1890 – 1920’s maps here. Just no Franklin.

There are plenty of older maps here (I am looking at a 1984 ‘Fort Worth’ map that was penned under Henry Gannett’s control right now.) But I did not find any other Tactical maps. Which means that ‘my’ collection probably does not have any tactical maps.

Loyal verifies that the 1910 map was called “Franklin …”; and if Moffat says there was one -- there was, but I wonder if the earlier map was actually a 125K reconnaissance map?

From my experience, I would think that there is not much difference from the 1930 from the 1910 if they are at the same scale.

At a later time, I will recount the map collection story. Everyone on this board will get a kick out of it. Especially the part where I am recruiting young surveyors to participate in a 'Knights of Templar' like, multi-lifetime endeavor to keep paper map collections in ‘one piece’ and un-circulated.

I am also cross checking the Texas maps against the USGS GeoPDF scans. I suppose that if I have any not available from USGS, then I should take them all back to town and scan them.

Sorry!

Mark

> Hmm, no "Franklin" maps. At all. Which surprises me, because I also did not find a paper copy of the GeoPDF that USGS has in their historical collection:
>
> http://ims.er.usgs.gov/gda_services/download?item_id=5686687

Mark, thank you very much for taking the time to look through your holdings for the elusive 1910 edition.

I tend to think that the 1910 edition was also a 15-minute quadrangle because of the level of detail presented on the later editions map that I wouldn't expect to see on a 1:125,000 scale map. In other words, of all that they had was 1:125,000 mapping, it just doesn't seem likely that anything short of a new mapping would be adequate to generate 1:62,500 maps of the same area.

I wish I'd thought to ask about the 15-minute "Jourdanton, TX" quadrangle since it was apparently also published in 1910 with later revisions and ending up printed as a US Army Tactical Map after 1936. If the planimetric detail on later editions was carried over from the 1910 edition, that would be fairly strong evidence in my view that the detail shown on the later editions of "Franklin Settlement" was also most likely just copied from the 1910 edition.

Jourdantown 1956, got it:

Available from USGS http://ims.er.usgs.gov/gda_services/download?item_id=5478691

Nearby I found a 1930 Whitsett map:

Available from USGS: http://ims.er.usgs.gov/gda_services/download?item_id=5479605

The USGS did a great job of scanning their collection. So good, it took the fun out of scanning mine. I don't think I have much that they don't have.

I looked through 20 random maps from my collection and the USGS historic collection had all but one: a San Antonio double sheet 15 x 30.

If anyone is interested, here is the search address for USGS Historic topographic maps (search by name):

http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/topomaps

http://www.texasmapstore.com/Atascosa_County_Texas_historical_topo_map_p/hst0885.htm

It seems to be in both Atascosa County and McMullen County and might hit the right area. Of course, it may not have the details you seek.

> Jourdantown 1956, got it:
>
>

Yes, and the real question is what the effective date of the planimetric detail really is. The printing date is 1956, but it's a reprint of an Army Tactical Map from about 1940 (judging by the date of the magnetic declination).

The map is full of contradictory clues. The town of Charlotte that appears on Jourdanton, Texas quadrangle was laid out in 1909. Most of the windmills shown on the map probably didn't exist in 1909-1910. That branch of Macho Creek that is penciled in on the file copy suggests that the topography was done on the ground, not from aerial photos. It's an interesting puzzle trying to put a compilation date on most of the detail on that map, but if I can actually find a copy of the 1910 edition, the puzzle disappears.