Adam
I think he is describing his threshold of whether to accept or reject (set a new one) monument.
However, I do it like you do.
Adam
> I think he is describing his threshold of whether to accept or reject (set a new one) monument.
Yes, that is it. And, using this process, I almost never create a pin cushion.
Adam
Of course surveyors know that sometimes you hold a found monument and sometimes you don't.
Imagine a parcel of land whose west line is part of an an older, longer, well monumented line, and is the real property line.
Say you found a called-for iron (with no record bounds called) at the NW cor, and it was 1.0' east of the well monumented line. You would probably set a a new iron on the well monumented line.
If you found an uncalled-for iron on the well monumented line, but the deed (which was metes-only) gave a distance along the north line that was 0.8' different from the measured, you would probably hold the un-called for monument over the call because of the reasoning shown below:
"It has been held frequently by this court that there is a presumption of law against a grantor retaining a long, narrow strip of land next to one of his outside lines, when the description of the land granted approximates the description under which he holds. "Generally, in the absence of facts or circumstances explanatory, it will not be presumed that a party granting land intends to retain a long, narrow strip next to one of his lines; but if the courses and distances approximate closely to a line or corner of the tract owned by the grantor - especially if the description in the deed corresponds, exactly or substantially, with the description in the title papers under which the land is held - it will be presumed that the lines mentioned are intended to reach the corners and run with the lines of the tract ..." United Fuel Gas Co. v. Townsend, Supreme Court of Appeals of W. Virginia, 1927, 139 S.E. 856, quoting Western Co. v. Peytona Co., 8 W. Va. 406,418
Steve
Sure. There are plenty of good reasons to hold uncalled for monuments that are found in the general vicinity of deed calls. And one should make a pin cushion very reluctantly. But I don't find any case law that supports the doctrine of holding the first monument set. And neither, it seems, can anyone else.
Steve
> Sure. There are plenty of good reasons to hold uncalled for monuments that are found in the general vicinity of deed calls. And one should make a pin cushion very reluctantly. But I don't find any case law that supports the doctrine of holding the first monument set. And neither, it seems, can anyone else.
Vicinity of a deed call?
0.34' from the center of a 0.16' diameter pipe
Mark
Mark,
You were right when you said that a surveyor driving a pin into the ground "does not a property line make". It needs to recognized and accepted the landowners. Agreed.
One of my engineer friends who used to survey for his dad during the summer told me: "I don't know how in the world you guys know which monument to hold".
I guess that's why they pay us the big bucks. Damn! I fell out of my chair after typing that one.
-Steve Adams (holder of knowledge that is worthless in the eyes of the paying public)
P.S.: I know others have found that vein of good clients, alas, my vein ran dry. Good on ya, mates.
Steve
I think that this conversation has gone well beyond Paul's specific pipe. This is a different thread. Clearly, it would be absurd, not to say physically difficult, to place a rod such that there was maybe 0.2' of clear space between them.
And I think that Paul's pipe had enough dignity to just be a "holder" even if it fell a good deal farther away from the dimension. But that dignity derives from operations of law other than this "first surveyor" fallacy.
Steve
Hang in there Steve. The well is pretty dry around here, too. Better days are coming.
Parcel Map Trivia - Exceptions to filing a Tract Map
In Los Angeles County (California), zoning (SMA 66426(d)) or lot size (SMA 66426(c)) is generally the case for a Parcel Map greater than 4 parcels in Los Angeles County. The following attachments show examples of a commercial/industrial zoning parcel map and a 40 acre+ lot area parcel map.
http://survey.dpw.lacounty.gov/landrecords/Parcel/PM293/PM293-034.pdf
http://survey.dpw.lacounty.gov/landrecords/Parcel/PM279/PM279-034.pdf
Those exceptions that fall under Subdivision Map Act Section 66426(a), (b) and (e) are few and far between.
Dennis
Yes. I forgot about the oversized parcels. It's been many years since I have done either a Tract or Parcel Map...I just do not want to deal with the red tape and the long time that it takes to get one from Tentative to Final.
I hear you Paul
This may sound strange coming from a government employee, but I would like nothing more than to speed up the tentative map entitlement and final map recordation processes for subdivisions.
Works in progress:
Tentative Maps
I am working with our Regional Planning folks, the BIA, some private land use consultants and environmental advocates to try and formulate some recommendations for the Board of Supervisors to approve that will help provide a more efficient entitlement process. If I had my way, it would be to relax the level of design/detail on the tentative map and give the County Engineer/Surveyor the authority to make a substantial conformance determination when the final design deviates from the "picture" represented on the approved tentative map. We spend too much time going back thru public hearings for changes that occur during final map processing and final engineering because the "picture" looks different.
Final Maps
I am also putting out an updated procedure manual for the preparation of final maps. The previous one was circa 1982 or there about and was not adequate in my opinion. Hopefully it will take the mystery out of what the map checker wants to see on the map and everyone involved will have the same playbook; cutting out one or more map check cycles. It currently has about 28 draft chapters and we will be releasing it for public comments (i.e. the surveying community); probably five chapters a month over the next six months. It will be available to download from our website to provide input. You may be interested in some of the chapters, even though you predominately appear to do mostly ROS and CR work.
Clearly the benefit to a local agency such as the County is the increased property taxes and public improvements provided through the subdivision process. The quicker the maps record, the quicker they get on the tax rolls and the quicker the increased revenue comes in.
Just my opinion...
Dennis
I will do single lot condos if the owner agrees to handle all the interaction with the city. I am not equipped for or have the desire to do the larger subdivisions, not that there is any land left to subdivide in LA County other than the high desert areas.
