shortage of surveyors

Considering the way the law is structured. And I am referring to state of Texas here. I believe there may very well be a shortage of Registered Surveyors or at the very least a new generation of RPLS' s with no field savvy what so ever.

Strong likelihood of a shortage of GOOD surveyors due to a lack of mentorship and unrealistic licensing requirements relative to the pay scale.

Yes

In South Carolina, the 4 year degree requirement started in 2009. From 2005 to 2009 there were about 10 to 20 new licenses per year. Now in 2015, we are luck to have 5 a year. The economy is coming back and the employees we had have found new carriers and the new talent is hard to find.

My advice is that we need to charge more for our services not to make more money for ourselves, but to hire good talented kids that will give us a great return on investment.

This issue has become a well discussed topic within NCEES and with most licensure boards, to the extent that NCEES has developed a task force called "The Future of Surveying". There has been a steady decline for the past several years of the number of people taking the PS exam, but my opinion, for what's worth, is the decline is strictly market based. There just isn't the opportunity is this profession right now that existed 6 or 7 years ago, or at least in my area. I have seen it discussed on this board and other places as well, that there is not a "pool" of surveying technicians or workers available now that the demand for our services is starting to increase, and I am starting to have the same problem in my business. I predict that in a decade, the same will be said for the licensed surveyor, but as Mr. Cow stated, there will most likely be gap in the passing of knowledge. I do not agree with some individuals that think the solution is to "do whatever it takes to get more people licensed" . Someone quoted a statistic to me last week that the average age of a Professional Surveyor across the nation was around 56 years old. As I get further toward the big end of this chain I've been stretching for 52 years, I try to take every opportunity I can to share what I have learned with anyone who will listen. (I have been told by one person that I was a wealth of useless knowledge: I took that as a compliment since they didn't know the difference between a stake and stobB-))

I do think that in 15 years or so, there will be more people wanting to be like us. I just hope I'm still around to see, and maybe get paid to watch.

My advice is that we need to charge more for our services not to make more money for ourselves, but to hire good talented kids that will give us a great return on investment.

:party::party::good::good:

It certainly killed my desire to get registered.
And we should slap the taste out of the next mouth that says "GIS is surveying too"
Maybe I can get that kid to hire me to do the actual work?

When I graduated back in the '80s we were told there was going to be a shortage of surveyors

The economy tanked almost immediately and work became impossible to find

Its been up and down at least three times since then

Other than the lifestyle, I don't see a lot to attract young people to the profession

We are now graduating about twice the number than in my year - and yet registrations continue to fall.

Holy Cow, post: 334170, member: 50 wrote: Strong likelihood of a shortage of GOOD surveyors due to a lack of mentorship and unrealistic licensing requirements relative to the pay scale.

And just what are those unrealistic licensing requirements?

Fewer of us doesn't scare me. Technology let's us do so much more with less. Fewer experienced professionals does.

Preaching to the choir here, but MENTORSHIP is the key IMHO. I see a shrinking pool of existing talent also, and a lot of young people who wouldn't lift a machete, but there are still those who are looking for something better than a job. Their tech savvy lifestyle has to be embraced and not mistaken for laziness. It is hard to stay up to date with all technology with our day to day operations, and these kids are immersed in it. USE that skill.

Grooming a kid from high school or providing a pathway while getting a tech degree is another tool. I see kids now who actually worry about the debt for college. Bring them in show them the rewards and hard work before they jump in. Most of us are Surveyors because we love what we do, and are where we are because we put in the effort. Mentors naturally display this, and the next generation will follow. Push them to continue their education, and provide a path to keep them. Then you can offer them more competitive pay because they can be profitable quickly. It may not match other professions, but they can't match the intangible rewards (like perpetuating 100+ year old history).

The unrealistic part is dictating a high level of training to apply for licensure for less than average blue collar wages with poorer benefits on average. Drive a truck, dig ditches, run a nail gun, make far more than a surveyor with an equivalent period of experience. The job security will be better Sad. Sad. Sad.

Holy Cow, post: 334200, member: 50 wrote: The unrealistic part is dictating a high level of training to apply for licensure for less than average blue collar wages with poorer benefits on average. Drive a truck, dig ditches, run a nail gun, make far more than a surveyor with an equivalent period of experience. The job security will be better Sad. Sad. Sad.

Here the degree and licensing requirements for a PE are much the same as surveying. The professional support is much better. And the remuneration is significantly better. The professions attract similar sorts of people. Why would one go into surveying?

( and yes I am making less than the Truckies on the sites where I'm working )

jim.cox, post: 334202, member: 93 wrote: ( and yes I am making less than the Truckies on the sites where I'm working )

And who's fault is that? The Truckies? The people the write the rules? Or, the person that writes the proposal that says what you bill?

Mike Falk, post: 334216, member: 442 wrote: And who's fault is that? The Truckies? The people the write the rules? Or, the person that writes the proposal that says what you bill?

Mine, 'cos I also have my Truck licence

Dedicated Survey firms where mentoring occurs are all but gone. Small and solo shops aren't generating new Surveyors either.
4 year degree or not a Surveyor is forged. Blame it on whatever you want but the facts are inescapable. The fault lies squarely with the lowball undercut race to the bottom myopic business model that prevails today. We need to remember that for better or worse somebody invested in us. It's time to suck it up and pass it on.

As a young surveyor with a passion for surveying, the 4 year degree program in Florida is holding me back. As I do not disagree with having some sort of formal education is surveying I do disagree with requiring a college degree. Not everyone finds their passion for surveying right out of high school and for those that find it later, going back to school, while working can be very difficult. I recognize that there are a great many of folks out there have done just that, worked and gone to school, balanced a family and whatever else on top of it but that doesn't necessarily mean that every other person should. I would very much support an license program that required a great working knowledge of field procedures, office management, and the concepts behind both backed by a certain degree of formal education. I do not support, however, the requirement that each person that becomes licensed to hold a 4 year degree in "Geomatics." There are aspects of surveying that a college grad will never understand, and it is unfair to those that understand what is "in between the lines" be completely deferred from licensure on a degree basis. Certificate programs are available but are seen as the same as a CST level program, i.e. the individual knows the concepts and can apply them but doesn't have a degree. A standard should definitely be followed when it comes to who is a professional and who is not, but should it be a degree that defines that standard and if it is not, what is?

I can relate to your perspective. I enlisted at 17 rather than attending college. That was my choice. As a result it took me 22 years to get my first license. Where we part is on the relationship between my experience and policy.
Land Surveying tools, duties and business models bear little resemblance to what I saw early in my career. The days of learning this business with no education are all but gone.
The consequences of our choices are not unique to Surveying. We wouldn't want our Physician or Attorney to be given a pass on education. The public deserves our being held to a set standard.

Too late!

Surveying now belongs to whoever is selling textbooks to four-year schools.:poop:
Most of the kids in "Geomatics" are flunking civil eng courses and need a "backup plan" to justify staying in school. I once asked about law and the kid said "yeah, we got a 1hr lecture on that. Simple really".

Your future will be lived out in a corner of the CAD room at some engineering firm.

P.S. Survey prices/wages in Florida are the same from the 80's-90's. Another part of the lie we stood for.

It's fairly simple as I see it.

Young college kids want money and something more glamourous and more professional seeming than hacking through brush and lifting man holes all of the time.

Experienced workers want a path to obtaining their license. Degree requirements have basically cancelled some good workers out of the profession.