Remonumentation

> What do you tell Mr. Homeowner?

You wish him good luck with his project, and invite him to call again if he ever has a need for professional surveying services.

> What do you tell Mr. Homeowner?

BUY the pipes and caps and do it himself

Could be some regional differences on this situation. I don't think a surveyor anywhere would feel good about being involved in the replacement of the monuments without resurveying the property to the point of comfort with their locations. I think you've bought yourself all the liability of the original surveyor by doing that.

From a California perspective, the rebars should be tagged and recorded in some way, so can the property owner just replace those without a licensed surveyor filing at least a corner record so the next surveyor that comes along knows to look for the big shiny things versus the two-bit rebars? People do it now and then thinking they are really helping out pounding some big old pipe over that flimsy rebar. As soon as they leave or die, though, how are we supposed to know they did that? It's a pain in the butt.

It really shouldn't take a skilled surveyor to do what the guy is asking and in places where the rebars aren't tagged or recorded, maybe there's not much harm in the property owner doing it if he's careful.

Yup.

When that idiot is asking you to skirt your ethics as a surveyor and ignore the responsibilities that are a part of preforming your licensed duty simply smile and walk away.

I probably would not call him back and would continue worthwhile endeavors and wait until he calls me again.

My first statement would be "I did not really believe you were serious when you ask me to lie. It is not possible for any surveyor to do that without it biting them in the rear someday. Guess what my fee would be for doing something that may possibly cause the loss of my license."

Just "What if" he moved some of those monuments, to be where he LIKED them, and you pull them out, and remonument it, and place your tag on it.

It gives the appearance that the LOCATION is your professional opinion.

I'd recommend that you tell him to do it himself, (Or hire his nephew)and save himself the wad of cash, that it will cost, to have you do it!

M

First off this is a simple process to remove a pin and put in a substantial monument. The caps can be purchased from many places and they do not require you to show your license when purchasing.

The land owner could do it himself or just hire a local construction company to do it for far less than hiring a surveyor.

Okay. That sets the scenario for the Why? Just why does he want a LS to do the work? That makes me very queasy and I would not do it. Suppose he set these bars himself and just wants to put you on the hook by be able to say to his neighbor "Yes, 6th set those and he is an LS so they are the corners"..

It really just does not add up to me.

> What do you tell Mr. Homeowner?

I'd tell him that it's commendable that he would want better monuments at the corners because the monuments are the most important part of his land claim. Then I'd ask him why the surveyor who placed the monuments didn't place substantial monuments in the first place. Then I'd ask for a copy of the survey for review and I'd tell him that the best way to perpetuate the existing monuments is to have them physically upgraded and then to record the upgrade in the survey records.

Without a pedigree, it sounds like the vast majority of surveyors would disregard them and cause a lawsuit because they're 0.14' from some presupposed position, making the survey and the monuments entirely worthless. That would defeat his primary objective and cause more problems that he can imagine.

No, he likely doesn't need a resurvey; but he does need someone to review the earlier survey. He can avoid that cost if he were to hire the surveyor who placed the monuments. If that surveyor's no longer available, he can hire another surveyor to review and confirm the positions, then perpetuate the monuments. Short of that, he's risking losing all of his investment and the value of his existing monuments if he were to do the work himself.

Or, you could just walk away, refuse to provide any assistance, and wait for the phone to ring.

JBS

I would not replace the corners without a resurvey by my office. Unless I was the original surveyor. And then I would still want to do a check by one of my crews.

Not without verifying previous boundary survey...

> > What do you tell Mr. Homeowner?
>
> I'd tell him that it's commendable that he would want better monuments at the corners because the monuments are the most important part of his land claim. Then I'd ask him why the surveyor who placed the monuments didn't place substantial monuments in the first place. Then I'd ask for a copy of the survey for review and I'd tell him that the best way to perpetuate the existing monuments is to have them physically upgraded and then to record the upgrade in the survey records.
>

Reasonable response so far

> Without a pedigree, it sounds like the vast majority of surveyors would disregard them and cause a lawsuit because they're 0.14' from some presupposed position, making the survey and the monuments entirely worthless. That would defeat his primary objective and cause more problems that he can imagine.
>

Typical strawman argument we have become used to seeing on surveyor's forums.

> No, he likely doesn't need a resurvey; but he does need someone to review the earlier survey. He can avoid that cost if he were to hire the surveyor who placed the monuments. If that surveyor's no longer available, he can hire another surveyor to review and confirm the positions, then perpetuate the monuments. Short of that, he's risking losing all of his investment and the value of his existing monuments if he were to do the work himself.
>
> Or, you could just walk away, refuse to provide any assistance, and wait for the phone to ring.
>

Back to reasonable response.

Peter Lazio

I think I'd tell him to read up on C.R.S. 18-4-508 and ask him if he's willing to risk a class 2 misdemeanor. He could also read up on C.R.S. 38-53-103 while he's at it.
Of course, the law is subject to interpretation and let him decide the direction of his upgrading.
I would not wish him luck with his project, but try to explain the potential consequences if he does it on his own. If he won't listen or see it your way, knock on the neighbors doors and leave a business card.

I'll be happy to for $XXX.XX or $XXXX.XX. Then, while he's not there, check the corners before you pull them out.

You put change in your pocket, and he gets what he wants.

He wants a very specific type of action. You can provide this action only after checking it. We don't tell clients that we have to have a specific closure, or any other mundane detail that we MUST do, why should now be any different?

If'n you're a little leary of this, then ask when he is available, and say your schedule is only available when he is not. That way, he comes home to find exactly what he asked for.

There isn't anything this guy is asking for that he can't do himself.

He can tie off the existing markers, replace them with better materials, buy a set of caps and stamp them "Property Corner" himself.

What the heck does he need you for?

That should be your first question.

1. visit the site, RP the monuments he points out.

2. instruct him or someone else how to use the RPs to rebuild in the right place

3. someone (anyone) gets the task of rebuilding them

4. visit the site, verify the new monument nature and locations

5. file a Corner Record disclosing the above

done deal

This is not a big deal, it helps him get what he wants, and it makes a public record for others that want to go one more step.

What's the point of lying to him, or doing something else while he's not around?

Either do it or don't do it.

OK - Get this

Mr. property owner calls, tells me thanks for the estimate, advise and information and that my services will not be required. He goes on to inform me that he placed an order for some pipe monuments and custom caps with Berntsen.

I tell him thanks for the consideration and that if he needs a surveyor to reference or survey the property, to give me call. He then says to me; "No need for that, I found a surveyor that will do the whole thing for $50 for each corner."

After biting my tongue,
I politely asked him why he was even calling me back?

He said;
"I thought you would just like to know."

I asked him what exactly is this other surveyor going to do?

He said;
"The guy will bring his telescope out and look at each point and then put the new markers in exactly where the old ones were - and it should only take him about 1/2Hr for each point"

I couldn't stand it anymore and told the guy by-

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-- Surveying in Commirado gets keeps getting better & better -- NOT!

WOW! That is all I can say. I can't even drive to a site, do the damaging work and return to the office for the amount. Barely start the pickup for that much. (Plus he is buying the stuff - from Bernstein, none the less). And still feel good about the work. I think I would have to inform the owner that what ever he or the other "surveyor" do is in violation of Colorado Law and you will make sure it will be reported to the board once you see the work being done.

Yes he or some other joe can do this, but he is actually taunting you by returning a call and insulting you on the costs.

Don't forget. GET a copy of his survey, and make a file on it.

You want to have a record of this whole event.

Never know, when you will do the survey for a future owner, or an adjoiner!

Cheers!

N