Railroad Track Survey - Definition?

We did one of an existing old railroad to be rehabilitated. Me and the engineer came up with the idea that they needed to know as much about it as possible. Instead of buying a mounting bracket for the rails, as it was old and overgrown, we took shots every 50' on the top inside of the rail. That way, he could model the spirals and curves as they existed and check against the old plans. Also, great care was made to locate points of frogs and diamonds in such a way that the engineer didn't have to guess at locations. There were enough shots taken on both top inside of rails that even the vertical curves were shown well. Other drainage structures were also shown with great detail.

In a sentence though, it sucked to get the detail necessary for this mile of track, mainly due to vegetation and that the rails hadn't seen a train in 30 years or more depending on which track we were working on. I'd recommend getting with the engineer and finding out what their goals are and you should be able to use your spidey sense on what you will have to provide to achieve those goals.

I've run track surveys on RR spurs that we did the centerline and grade staking.

It is just like anything else, except that they do not give an actual station where the frog goes or the pivot point of where a sidetrack takes off.

You have to take the diagram and figure it out.

I was so glad that they started building all those things in the yard and brought them in whole to set in place. The same for crossings for roads. It sure made things simple.

0.02

> I received a RFP on a project and one of the line items listed is a "track survey". To me that would mean a topographic survey and perhaps ROW, but I have a feeling that a RR consultant may use the term to mean something else. Has anyone seen this term before? I keep thinking of those fancy rail things you see in POB that has a target mounted on a cross beam that sits between the rails. Thoughts?

If it's an RFP, I would get some clarification. If there is no sub item clearly defining the scope, it can mean any number of things.
Take it from me, the extra inquiry is well worth it. Don't let the scope be defined on beerleg and enter into something like that making assumptions.

Ralph

> > I received a RFP on a project and one of the line items listed is a "track survey". To me that would mean a topographic survey and perhaps ROW, but I have a feeling that a RR consultant may use the term to mean something else. Has anyone seen this term before? I keep thinking of those fancy rail things you see in POB that has a target mounted on a cross beam that sits between the rails. Thoughts?
>
> If it's an RFP, I would get some clarification. If there is no sub item clearly defining the scope, it can mean any number of things.
> Take it from me, the extra inquiry is well worth it. Don't let the scope be defined on beerleg and enter into something like that making assumptions.
>
> Ralph

Totally agree. I don't do enough railroad work to really have a feel for the projects which is why I insisted that I meet with the engineer on site to verify all facets of the project and to understand their goals properly. That 2 hours on site made a world of difference (and I learned a lot also) in how I set the project up and how I completed it.

> Don't let the scope be defined on beerleg and enter into something like that making assumptions.
>
> Ralph

:good:

Thanks for all the replies. I have requested a little more (really, a well defined) scope info. But I am interested in working on a RR projects.

> Thanks for all the replies. I have requested a little more (really, a well defined) scope info. But I am interested in working on a RR projects.

After a while, I played like it was a huge topo and asbuilt so that I wouldn't forget anything. 🙂

Meeting with design engineer/client on site or getting as much information upfront and then if selected, meeting with them on site is definitely the way to go. Before my current job, working for the railroad directly, I worked on a lot of railroad projects at my former employer. We always thought we were locating the correct things in the field, but boy did that change once I got here. There are a lot of little things that I would have never guessed mattered.

If you need it, I have a pdf of a track bar that you can make for about $30-40 that does a pretty good job at locating the centerline of the tracks.

>
> Totally agree. I don't do enough railroad work to really have a feel for the projects which is why I insisted that I meet with the engineer on site to verify all facets of the project and to understand their goals properly. That 2 hours on site made a world of difference (and I learned a lot also) in how I set the project up and how I completed it.

:good: :good:

Adam, I'd like a copy.

Kris, I heard they wanted to rehab the track east of the park for new industry. Were you involved with that? I couldn't tell if the old roadbed ever went much past the prison but from the aerials it looks like there is a reasonable amount of real estate there to put in some industry.

I understand you have private railcars coming south on the Texas Eagle today heading to San Antonio just so they can catch the rare mileage of the Amtrak detour through Palestine on the way back. When they get to Palestine, they are going to break off the Amtrak for a run behind the steam engine, overnight in Rusk and then head back the next day to complete their trip back to St. Louis.

For Roadhand --"Brooklyn Style"

:good: :good: :good:

For Roadhand --"Brooklyn Style"

Ralph,

Are those your guys working or just a crew you say working. The reason I ask is I've been trying to get info on the Gedo CE rail measuring equipment from our Trimble dealer for sometime and have yet to hear anything. Thank you

For Roadhand --"Brooklyn Style"

> Ralph,
>
> Are those your guys working or just a crew you say working. The reason I ask is I've been trying to get info on the Gedo CE rail measuring equipment from our Trimble dealer for sometime and have yet to hear anything. Thank you
Yes those are my guys.
Email me through the link on here and I'll get you in touch with the right people. Even if I have to get to the guy who invented it (Andreas Sinning).

I promise you.

Ralph

Here's some pics for you:

Sorry uploaded the wrong pic, they looked the same in small scale. (I'm getting old)

go to this link and you can see more of it:

New York Geomatics

Adam,

I would love to have a copy of that pdf as well as any other things about railroad details you wouldn't mind sharing. The email link should work.

Thanks,
Ryan

For Roadhand --"Brooklyn Style"

How is the single trolley working out for you? We have noticed quite a bit of descrepancies the closer the cart gets to the gun,like in your first picture, then it gets better after it passes. We can run the double trolley on the same section, using the same control and it will be right on. The tamper will match the double as well.
here is a section we were working on yesterday.

Also, a lesson learned, put your mt1000 on there and measure it up. We get no difference and eliminate a ton of heartburn.

For Roadhand --"Brooklyn Style"

> How is the single trolley working out for you? We have noticed quite a bit of descrepancies the closer the cart gets to the gun,like in your first picture, then it gets better after it passes. We can run the double trolley on the same section, using the same control and it will be right on. The tamper will match the double as well.
> here is a section we were working on yesterday.
>
You're doing Ballast, I'm doing slab track. I haven't noticed any difference and I check it in the overlap when I put it onto office. I thought Amberg was the leader in this field but apparently they've followed Trimble and made their own dual trolley system. Everyone I know says the dual trolley for ballast track is the bomb!
>
> Also, a lesson learned, put your mt1000 on there and measure it up. We get no difference and eliminate a ton of heartburn.

The MT1000 is less accurate and probably not accurate enough for some of the stuff we do. I use one of Andreas' high precision prisms. BTW, they say you can only use it with an S8. My S8 was on another project doing a control network and we jimmy rigged it to work with a 2" S3.

SO far so good.

Ralph

For Roadhand --"Brooklyn Style"

E-mail sent.

Railroad Track Survey - Definition? For Andy

> Adam, I'd like a copy.
>
> Kris, I heard they wanted to rehab the track east of the park for new industry. Were you involved with that? I couldn't tell if the old roadbed ever went much past the prison but from the aerials it looks like there is a reasonable amount of real estate there to put in some industry.
>
> I understand you have private railcars coming south on the Texas Eagle today heading to San Antonio just so they can catch the rare mileage of the Amtrak detour through Palestine on the way back. When they get to Palestine, they are going to break off the Amtrak for a run behind the steam engine, overnight in Rusk and then head back the next day to complete their trip back to St. Louis.

Yes that is the project I am currently working on and the one I was speaking about above.

The rail made a loop from the depot in rusk on the Cotton Belt (St. Louis Southwestern), North to the State Hospital/Prison and then back Southwesterly to the intersection of the State Railroad and the Cotton Belt. We worked on a rehab of the track using part of the old Cotton Belt Northwesterly approximately 1500' from the diamond and Northeasterly from the diamond about 4000'.

I wasn't aware of the new cars coming in, but that's encouraging as the biggest hiccup initially was getting the 2 miles of track from Palestine to the MoPac (old I&GNRR now Union Pacific) built then the main line could bring freight in via the State Railroad to Rusk when the tourist traffic was slow (like this time of year).

It's been fun and I've learned a lot and if this thing really gets kicked off, I'll be very busy and I've built one helluva network out there. Biggest benefit is that the project is about 2 miles from my office. If it weren't for one hill and a butt load of loblolly pines, I could see it from my office. 🙂