Being in a Civil and Surveying company, there is none of the animosity some have mentioned. I rely on them for their expertise on civil design, and they rely on our survey data to design. Without our data, they don't have anything.
Locally there are not many engineers.
The municipalities are under the impression that their influence makes projects cost 3 times too much and they always get an amount for what the project will cost and a much higher amount for what they will have to pay.
The engineers also are much the same as Realtor in that their numbers for the Surveyors are numbers from 1980.
Their explanation is always that the number is what they would charge.
They then take that Surveyor's number and give it their multiplier fix and come up with an appropriate number for them to charge.
One engineer told me to my face that surveyors do not deserve to make over $50k a year.
He then turned around and blasted a flood study project I had brought him into orbit and turned a $20k job into $85k and the client lost all interest and moved on and out of this area.
BTW, my first full time actual employer was a real Engineer.
He had his own Engineer business, built frame houses to be moved and while I was there we were on lake subdivisions and a mini mall covering about 60 acres where he designed and staked the entire job and a stray land survey.
He was out in the field every day there was field work and had a hammer or other tool in hand and made all the cuts when building houses.
The only thing he did not do was clean floors and paint, we did that.
0.02
Jim in AZ, post: 449665, member: 249 wrote: I have been asked to provide feedback regarding the following issue, and thought it might be interesting to see what others have to say.
"There seems to be a little bit of professional rivalry between surveyors and engineers. Some surveyors think that engineers view them as simply "working for the engineer? or that surveying is somehow simply a lesser discipline within engineering (or would like to make it one). Some even go further into believing that there is some grand conspiracy among the engineering associations to relegate surveying to some minor discipline.
This is kind of odd as surveyors in many countries are very happy that surveying is an engineering discipline, but here in the US that does not play well. Is there anything you might want to say to dispel the above misconceptions?"
Any thoughts?
Thanks...
We have to fix the mistakes made by engineers, architects, landscape architects, planners and designers when we perform layout.
When I was a survey tech I worked for an engineering firm. The PEs were shocked that I could hold my own on their turf.
Survey Chad, post: 449896, member: 12063 wrote: Being in a Civil and Surveying company, there is none of the animosity some have mentioned. I rely on them for their expertise on civil design, and they rely on our survey data to design. Without our data, they don't have anything.
I'm luckily with you also. I've had a partner for over 30 years who is an engineer. We have a mutual respect for the others discipline. Since the day we started in business we made a conscious effort to keep a distinct line between the two. We cooperate with very few problems.
With that being said, I often subcontract to large engineering firms. Over the years I've run across plenty of engineers who "took survey courses" in college or "worked a summer for Uncle Fred". I have found that if I sit down and explain in great detail how and why we are doing something in a certain way and the pitfalls we are avoiding they usually come around. It's no different than how I approach attorneys and architects. Just give them a little scare and they are glad to pass the responsibility on to the professional who should be in control.
Hack
Hack, post: 449906, member: 708 wrote: I have found that if I sit down and explain in great detail how and why we are doing something in a certain way and the pitfalls we are avoiding they usually come around. It's no different than how I approach attorneys and architects. Just give them a little scare and they are glad to pass the responsibility on to the professional who should be in control.
This.
My attitude is: "I'm the surveyor here...you tell me what your doing and I'll give you everything you need. I got this, you just worry about your part of the project."
That said, I'm licensed in states where surveyors can prepare, and are tested on: road, sediment control, storm drain, and storm water management design (along with a few more items that fall under engineering in many states). So I have a real good idea of what the site designer needs, because I am one.
James Fleming, post: 449910, member: 136 wrote: This.
My attitude is: "I'm the surveyor here...you tell me what your doing and I'll give you everything you need. I got this, you just worry about your part of the project."
That said, I'm licensed in states where surveyors can prepare, and are tested on: road, sediment control, storm drain, and storm water management design (along with a few more items that fall under engineering in many states). So I have a real good idea of what the site designer needs, because I am one.
Same
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JPH, post: 449689, member: 6636 wrote: Thanks, that's great, but that's not really the point, being that they'd rather wait for the lowly surveyor than to dirty their hands by opening a yucky manhole themselves.
We run through a few Civil Eng Cadets here (2 on currently) as part of their requirements is 3 months (all up, not in a row) with the Survey crews, both field and office. Gives them a very good understanding of what's really involved in 'Just another 100m up that creek line' and 'just pop out and grab that.' Biggest saving seems to be service locating/understanding what's really involved getting obvert shots on existing services, really makes them think twice to if they actually need 5 shots along that Telecomm line, or if they could get away with just 2.
The latest head honcho seems to put more emphasis on the Civil Engineers, (i.e. their team increased in size 50% while it's tooth and nail for us to refill a vacant position) but the majority of Engineers I work with respect our role as equals.
Definitely met my fair share of Engineers that think they're more important than any other profession... but I've met my fair share of Surveyors that thought that too...
Equivocator, post: 450221, member: 6885 wrote:
Definitely met my fair share of Engineers that think they're more important than any other profession... but I've met my fair share of Surveyors that thought that too...
Well, we are......:-)
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Equivocator, post: 450221, member: 6885 wrote: We run through a few Civil Eng Cadets here (2 on currently) as part of their requirements is 3 months (all up, not in a row) with the Survey crews, both field and office. Gives them a very good understanding of what's really involved in 'Just another 100m up that creek line' and 'just pop out and grab that.' Biggest saving seems to be service locating/understanding what's really involved getting obvert shots on existing services, really makes them think twice to if they actually need 5 shots along that Telecomm line, or if they could get away with just 2.
The latest head honcho seems to put more emphasis on the Civil Engineers, (i.e. their team increased in size 50% while it's tooth and nail for us to refill a vacant position) but the majority of Engineers I work with respect our role as equals.
Definitely met my fair share of Engineers that think they're more important than any other profession... but I've met my fair share of Surveyors that thought that too...
While you're out there, go get that centerline stripe in the highway would you?
