Protecting the Corners

Get media coverage. No such thing as bad publicity. Maybe it would open some eyes...

Good luck!! I hope you can get across to the attorney and a local judge the importance & complexity of corner recovery. Also the likely mess, both in the field and in future court cases, destruction of PLSS corners will cause. Does your county have a County Surveyor that will support this? Looks like the law, Title 17 Counties, Chapter 23 County Surveyor, Sections 14 Disturbed corners -- County surveyor to be notified & 16 Resurveys, places the County Surveyor in the middle of this. Any judge considering an injunction needs to be reminded of this section of the law and request the County Survey to present estimates of recovery/resurvey before chaining and after chaining. The cost to the local government will likely be a surprise to both the attorney and the judge.

EDIT: I also agree with Joe_Surveyor. Best to do this once you have an attorney on board. Attorney explains the law and the relationship between state action and county cost. Another unfunded mandate unless the county takes the state to court for damages. You then cover the amount work required. The cost to the county of "negligent removal" of corners. Attorney comes back in with legal action county may be forced to take if state does not cooperate.

Utah gave the option to combine county offices. The most popular combination has been to combine the Recorder/Surveyor. That's what my county did about 1988 soon after the law took effect. What they did was eliminate the costs of having a county surveyor. The recorder holds the title and keeps the records but can't do any survey work that requires a license. So not much has been done for PLSS corners except spend a little grant money they get. My county like most rural Utah counties has not maintained the PLSS. I venture that most of the corners I'm worried about have little other than the original GLO record. But I know from experience that in this area most of the corners are still there (low human use other than pasture and hunting). Most of the burn scar is private land.

AND, I have been to the county commission more than once trying to get the surveyor back too an independent office to maintain the PLSS. Same answer as always, no money, it's not that important.

Is there anything your state association will help you with?

It takes a big man to take on a big challenge like this. I have faith in you. Getting a lawyer involved may be expensived at first, but, well worth it when dealing with "institutional" thinking.

It is too bad we are so short on time with the chaining coming soon along with winter. It would be nice to organize a large surveyorconnect/UCLS function and find/locate as many corners we could in a weekend. I'd sure volunteer some saddle time looking for stones. Best of luck in your efforts Leon, let me know if I can help.

I've found I don't have the patience to work through slow moving organizations. Been there done that. I like to get things done. I might make the call. My life experience says if you want something done, do it yourself.

Again it comes back to publicity. Get the word out to private property owners. If the state and county do this it will someday cost them additional money. Surveying a property may require working in from miles away and be subject to additional uncertainty because of the lost corners. Private citizens may need to sue the state for damages under the law you cited. If the state is not exempt by state statues. That may be the best way to put pressure on the state, county, professional association and state license board to explain the problems that are about to be created.

Archeologists BUT NO Land Surveyors

I just found out they they let contracts to archeologists to walk the burn area and locate any sites that required protection. They have talked about the section markers but didn't think to get any surveyors in the loop as far as locating the corners. The chaining contractors are being told to 'watch out for the corners.”

Folks, we as surveyors are a forgot-about clan. I don't know exactly why but something is wrong here. Maybe we brought it upon ourselves for causing problems. But Geez, wouldn't you think that land surveyors would be in the loop to look for boundary markers.

I didn't have any idea this chaining was coming down the road or I'd been on this from the beginning.

Archeologists BUT NO Land Surveyors

Unbelievable...NO, I take that back...it figures!

Keep pounding on them Leon!
Loyal

Sort of an UPDATE - Protecting the Corners

Not always sure what will fall out when you rattle the cage. I've talked to most of the parties. Didn't get to the bottom of it until someone followed the money. The story is a bit different from every party. Others surveyors from the Utah Council of Land Surveyors have joined the cause, making calls and sending emails.

If I got this straight the money came from a grant for 75% of the cost from the NRCS. This money passes through the county which has contracted others to manage the contractors that are doing the work. The Division of Wildlife Resources (DWR) is providing the seed which makes up the other 25% required to get the grant. This seeding and restoration is severely needed, the burn scar its causing all sorts of problems including flooding.

At this point it seems that most if not everybody has decided that the section corners need to be protected from damage and that surveyors need to be in the loop. What they are trying to sort out is who is the responsible party and then find the funding to hire the surveying. As near as I can gather it was decided early on (erroneously in my view) that the landowners where responsible to protect the corners and that the DWR guys would flag them up. I've talked to some of the large landowners (second or third generation) and they don't know where many corners are (the outside boundary fence is what they have used for decades). I haven't heard that anyone originally suggested that it should be done by surveyors but from all the emails and phone calls going around I think that has changed.

One person quite high up the ladder asked me why with the satellites you just couldn't go mark the corners, should be simple. I get that all the time. I explained that if the county had done this work where a surveyor had found the corner, measured it, recorded it and it had made it through the process of getting properly into the GIS that would be absolutely true. We have a very few corners done during the last 4 years or so completed, just a start. Wouldn't it be great it we had the other several thousand at the same status. It's always money, and in Rural Utah the money has always run out before maintenance of the PLSS.

I don't know where this is going to fall out, just hope they decide soon who is the responsible party. I'm pretty sure where I think the responsibility falls but we will see.

UPDATE - Protecting the Corners

The county has finally broke loose some money for corner location by a surveyor. How many corners can be located and flagged in about 120 hrs work in low mountainous terrain. We shall see, I went and bought a used ATV today. I hope this sets a new course for future burn scars and dozer chaining. There are three chains rolling over 15,000 acres. Think about the corners up front and get the surveyors out there before they start the dozers running. Thanks to all the folks that supported this effort! We are not totally there yet but a foot is in the door.