I'm working in several counties (I won't mention where to avoid bad feelings), that another surveyor has been screwing up for 35 years. His practice is to use proportionate measurement when a monument can not be easily found. Ignoring all other evidence.
I'm following behind and finding a stone or 2, and that fences and other occupation are matching GLO well (or leading me to more stones). I'm also finding a rebar 10-60 feet away (prorated in), that doesn't fit anything. Some of these rebars are prorated from prorated monuments creating a huge mess. I've been able to find a few stones near these markers also.
My problem is coming into these sections and having to decide to accept his survey or do it correct. Many improvements have been built off his surveys. I'm dealing with one now where I found stones. He has surveyed a pipeline and placed it 30 feet South of the 1/2 Section Line, in the wrong Quarter. I have stones at every corner on this survey.
I've called him and he refuses to accept any evidence except GLO Stones. His comment to me was the manual does not say to use roads or fences to replace lost corners. I could have swore the manual says use all existing evidence, and prorate only as a last resort. Our goal is to put markers as close to the original position as possible. Not to rely on a math solution, that will rarely (if ever) be close.
He has been licensed 30+ years longer than myself. This also adds to his arrogance.
Basically I'm venting out of frustration. In most cases I reject his surveys. Any advice others might have would be helpful. It looks bad to the public having these kind of discrepancies. I'm also forced to raise my rates knowing I'll have a mess to clean up.
It's WORSE when the "Proportional Measurement King" (PMK) was the County Surveyor for a decade or two (or more)!
:-@
Loyal
It depends on a lot of things. even if you accept the corners of the "king", there may be properties that were established in the past that relied on the original corner. We just did a job where we "had" to set some original corner locations. We went to old deeds in the area. There was some evidence of ties to the original corner, and there was an old gravesite where the corners had direct ties to the original corner. Fortunately, more than one tie pointed to the same location within a couple of feet. I'm sure you understand all of this, my only point is that you need to honor all the older properties that once tied to the original corner location. I guess you can't ignore properties that tie to the "bogus" corner, but I would definitely think that you need to establish the original corner location if it is possible. Call that the "section corner" and don't tear up the bogus corner, because that may be other rights that have ripened off of that location as well.
(of course I am probably preaching to the choir, I assume you are venting more than asking an opinion.)
“Of course, nothing in what has been said can require a surveyor to conceal his own judgment, or to report the facts one way when he believes them to be another. He has no right to mislead, and he may rightfully express his opinion that an original monument was at one place, when at the same time he is satisfied that acquiescence has fixed the rights of parties as if it were at another. But he would do mischief if he were to attempt to establish monuments which he knew would tend to disturb settled rights; the farthest he has a right to go, as an officer of the law, is to express his opinion where the monument should be, at the same time that he imparts the information to those who employ him, and who might otherwise be misled, that the same authority that makes him an officer and entrusts him to make surveys, also allows parties to settle their own boundary lines, and considers acquiescence in a particular line or monument, for any considerable period, as strong if not conclusive evidence of such settlement.” -Justice Thomas Cooley
Excerpt From: Michael J. Pallamary, PLS. “The Curt Brown Chronicles.” AuthorHouse, 2011-03-09T05:00:00+00:00. iBooks.
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I won't disturb any monuments, and several properties rely on them. Life would be much better if this guy just did his job properly.
> ...... His comment to me was the manual does not say to use roads or fences to replace lost corners.
From the 2009 manual:
6-18. A corner is not considered as lost if it's position can be recovered satisfactorily by means of the reliable testimony and acts of witnesses having knowledge of the precise location of the original monument....Full inquiry may bring to light various records relating to the original corners and memoranda of private markings, and the surveyor must make use of all such sources of information...
6-41. It is not intended to disturb satisfactory local conditions with respect to roads, fences, and other evidence of use or occupancy. ...In many cases due care has been exercised to place the property fences and other evidence of use or occupancy on the lines of the legal subdivision and locate the public roads on the section or subdivision-of-section lines. These are matters of particular interest to the adjoining owners, and it is a reasonable presumption that care and good faith would be exercised with regard to the evidence of the original survey in existence at that time. Obviously, the burden of proof to the contrary must be borne by the party claiming differently....
There are others. Just have him read Chapter 6. If that is too hard for him maybe you could arrange for your state board to read it to him.
We (myself and 3 other surveyors) have tried at our local chapter meetings. He refuses to change his ways, so we can all deal with the mess. The board just seems to ignore the situation. I guess he's in with the good ole boy network to tight. I quit going to our local meetings to avoid the aggravation.
Until the day you sit down and write out a VALID complaint against the man and his practices, you are doing a dis service to yourself and anyone else in the service area. Make sure the survey is wrong, not just a basic 'you' interpretation issue.
He may have made a mistake in your eyes, but is it a mistake in the eyes of the court?
When anyone refuses to listen, learn or change their error or potential errors or ideas, then, this profession will not get any better. No, not a 'Witch Hunt' but legitimate errors that a Land Surveyor refuses look at or for, then you have little recourse but the BOR.
Let me promise you, the hardest thing YOU will ever do is lick that envelope and pay the certified mail fee at the post office; BUT, you may be surprised just how far that "Good ol' Boy network" may not go when there is something in writing.
It will not be a fun day and you are going to have to sit across the table from him when the BOR hears the preliminary or final action.