It's 7 member planning board. Two members recuse themselves as they sit on the board of directors of abutting property.
Now we have a 5 member board and the planner states "You have to have 4 votes to pass." Last night four members were present, for the third hearing on this subdivision. We have been meeting every two weeks for the past 6 weeks. After 3 hours of negotiation with the board and the abutters a motion by the board is made to approve the plan. 3 in favor, 1 against. The motion is declared failed???
I say no, the motion has passed. Or, the board has taken no action. NO further motions were made, such as to disapprove the plan (must be done with specific reasons stated).
This subject has been a problem several times in the past 30 years and it used to be that a majority of those sitting bond the whole board.
What say you?
Dtp
When The Minimum Is Available, A Postponment Is Prudent
Been through that a few times on both sides.
You might want to check the state and local planning board laws.
If no bulk or use variances were involved a simple majority of a quorum should suffice. Best to ask a judge.
All in all, I never really cared if the Planning Board approved. The question to have the client's attorney ask is to the board professionals,
"Mr. Planning Board Engineer, does this application meet the conditions of the ordinance?" "Yes."
"Mr. Planning Board Attorney, does this application meet the conditions of the ordinance?" "Yes."
Does Massachusetts have Professional Planners, New Jersey does, PA does not?
Planners are usually too self righteous to want to deal with, the non professionals more so than the trained professionals.
"Mr. Planning Board Chairman, we request a vote that this plan meets the conditions of the ordinance."
One time the board was dumbfounded, usually they are arrogant.
If they say no, the judge really likes a slam dunk case.
Been there and done better than that.
Paul in PA
When The Minimum Is Available, A Postponment Is Prudent
In this case several of the members terms are expiring next week and are not being re-appointed by their choice. Otherwise I would agree with you.
When The Minimum Is Available, A Postponment Is Prudent
Good answer Paul.
The rules of the Plan Commission are written, not verbal. Get a copy and go over them, looking for what constitutes a "majority". In the absence of a special definition:
In Robert's Rules, http://www.robertsrules.com/faq.html#4
The word “majority” in this context means, simply, more than half. The use of any other definition, such as 50 percent plus one, is apt to cause problems. Suppose in voting on a motion 17 votes are cast, 9 in favor and 8 opposed. Fifty percent of the votes cast is 8 1/2, so that 50 percent plus one would be 9 1/2. Under such an erroneous definition of a majority, one might say that the motion was not adopted because it did not receive 50 percent plus one of the votes cast, although it was, quite clearly, passed by a majority vote. [RONR (11th ed.), p. 400; see also p. 66 of RONRIB.]
Hope this helps.
0% Plus One Is 51%
In the US House with much more than 100 members, 50.1% is OK
Laws should state things like, "On a 7 member Board 4 votes are required for a bulk/use variance" but not for a less crucial approval. Also there should be rules in place for alternates.
Paul in PA
Does the charter of the municipality spell out the requirement for an absolute rather than simple majority or did they make it up on the fly?
And do the rules state "a majority of the board" or do they say "a majority of the members present"? Much could be bought to a halt by members not showing up for meetings.
School boards in Kansas consist of seven people. The rule applied today and 27 years ago when I was elected the first time dictates that four is the critical number regardless of the number in attendance. Also there must be at least four present or the meeting cannot be held for lack of a quorum. In standard procedure we are not to form a group of us outside of a regular meeting that consists of a majority of a quorum as we might possibly discuss business. That would be three out of the four needed for a quorum. So two of us can chat all we want, but, if a third approaches, we need to scatter. Silly, but, those are the rules. The punishment for having an illegal meeting and getting caught is normally attendance in a mandatory education session held many miles from home plus widely announced condemnation in the news media.
Our school board occasionally needs a special meeting between the regular monthly meetings in order to handle one or two essential, but normally straight forward issues. At the last two meetings we have only had four in attendance. A unanimous vote was required.
Abe Lincoln once tried to jump out of a window in the Illinois capitol to keep a quorum from being formed.
Hi Don,
Planner may be right.
Thanks Bob, I was looking for something like that but in an opposite sense. LOL
I recall a statement from the court along the lines of "Clearly it was never the intent of the legislature to prevent a board from performing it's duties due to a lack of available members."
I would argue that the two members who recused themselves should not count in the total. Otherwise by recusing themselves their vote automatically becomes a NO vote. This goes completely against the purpose of recusing yourself, your vote shouldn't count either for or against.
I would say you had a 5 member board with 3 votes required to pass.
What would happen to a project if 4 members had to recuse themselves do to a potential conflict? Not an impossibility in a small town.
Good question.
The a technical difference between "recused" and "absent" might make a difference.
My experience has been that when a quorum is not present, the Board will continue the meeting until a latter date when the required quorum is present and/or assign alternate members to the board.
When faced with the minimum number of members, (all must vote "yeah") most Boards will allow the applicant the choice of taking the vote or continuing until more members are there.
A recused or absent member is not a "no" vote.
What Mr Cow said. Without a quorum, the meeting never happened.
Here at APLS and it's an 11 member board, it takes a simple majority to pass motions. But we need at least 6 present, or no quorum. You had 4 of 7, so that would constitute an almost quorum.
Depends on your by-laws. If you need 4 yes votes to pass anything, then oops. Failed. If somebody with a potential for a conflict abstains the vote, no problem.
Local politics are sure more fun than national politics, eh
Did you give them an extension? Have they reached the 90-day mark (assuming a preliminary was approved).
No I didn't. Deadline is May 30th for default approval
Correction, 50% Plus One Is 51%
Big fingers not heavy enough to activate keys.
Paul in PA
Dumb question
What is the hold up on their end? Are you asking for waivers or something special? Are there do-gooder obstructionists or is the abutting trust in opposition and the recused are reaching their will through the dissenting vote?
Dumb question
It's been a 20 year project for me, 15 years with the current attorney. Two trials running several days each, then numerous appeals. It's near the Kline property in Truro.