I've been chasing GLO corners now for over 40 years. I have set nails in witness trees for most of that time. Usually whatever I had in my pocket. 16d, 30d, aluminum, whatever. The USFS says "aluminum nails". We were told that their impact at the sawmill was much less destructive. I've run a sawmill, so I agree.
At the time I set those 30d nails, I did not care who hit it with their chainsaw, or sawmill. They should "leave my witness trees alone". They should not destroy corners. Once, when I was about 18 yrs old, I priced a job based on records, that a certain section corner was "in". It was not. It degenerated till I'd searched well for it, using GLO creek ties. The monument was eventually found, on its side, and ripped out with tree planting equipment. I finally was able to find an aluminum nail, in witness tree, (stump was all that was left, and it was rotten) there were 2 of these. I spent over a whole day, replacing this monument. I did get it, but profitability was in the dumpster.
But, it gave me to think. I actually occasionally set 2 monuments, one burried for the event That the surface one gets knocked out.
I've lived long enough to see the trees, with steel nails seem more prone to lightning strikes. And, the lightning seems to go right through the big steel nail.
So, my question is: what is best? What kind of nail really preserves the witness tree the best? I'm getting ready to order some more nails.
As a side note, I've become sweet on those fluted concrete, or masonry nails. Just for control nails. They make metal detectors sing better than plain nails. And, they are distinctive. Lots cheaper than PK nails, or MagHub nails. And, I've set those in witness trees.?ÿ
So, what nails are "best" for witness trees, and is it worth it to keep multiple nail types in your vest?
I'd like to do all of it with fluted masonry nails, as they meet my surveyor needs well.?ÿ
I'm blathering here, but this simple choice could mean the difference between a lost corner, and an easily found/preserved corner.?ÿ
Aluminum vs steel nails?
And, if you use steel ones, high carbon, vs low carbon?
What practice preserves things the "best"??ÿ
Thanks,
Nate
We rarely use trees for references as nearly all section corners are along roads here.?ÿ Fence posts and power poles plus culverts are the most common items out in the country.?ÿ Lots of telephone pedestals, too.?ÿ Road sign posts and utility witness posts come in handy on occasion.?ÿ Two bad things with using trees is guessing which tree may have been used and having the tree grow over the nail completely.
I use mag nails with whiskers. Easy to spot by eye or metal detector.
Adding whiskers is a great suggestion.?ÿ They last quite awhile unless varmints find them tasty.?ÿ They tend to fade to a grayish white over time but still stand out far better than a plain nail head.
Just cut an "X" or Alligator on them here.?ÿ One paper company required 60d nails in the center of the "X" with turned angles and distances to the center so the corner could be resected in, accurately, from the witness trees without having to run the line.?ÿ That was short lived and they sold to someone who doesn't care now, so I don't drive nails.?ÿ Honestly, we don't mark a lot of trees anymore.?ÿ Everything we do is on the grid and it's just too easy to reset something.?ÿ We call it the era of disposable control.
That's really true. If you REALLY want to preserve a survey, or corner, publish the SPC.
With Javad, SPC is too easy.
Nate
That only helps the next surveyor find the corners if they, too, are working in SPC.?ÿ Give me some solid local ties that can be found with a 50-foot steel tape in a few minutes, including the digging.
publish the SPC.
With all the appropriate metadata - was that NAD83(HARN), NAD83(2007), NAD83(2011), and when somebody needs it in the future will they know enough to not use the 2022 coordinate system?
We should leave behind evidence that can be easily found by the average person with simple methods.?ÿ In another thread we discussed expecting construction workers and utility locators and city workers and county workers to be able to preserve our monuments.?ÿ They must have a simplistic means of doing that.?ÿ Swing ties require minimal equipment and minimal education level.
State plane is more complicated than?ÿ we need, lat long with appropriate metadata is better, one less opportunity to screw up.
But...are how many surveyors are really going to reestablish a lost corner based on another surveyors coordinates. This is not a method with wide spread acceptance by the courts. Don't forget the primary purpose of a monument is for land owners/users to to be able to manage their land, not for other surveyors.?ÿ
I expect as precision positioning becomes more commonly used and understood by laymen the courts will begin to come around, but we are not there yet.?ÿ
SPCs do not trump a found original monument, and I'd argue an obliterated monument reset using witness accessories also trumps SPCs.?ÿ That being said they're wonderful search tools.
Concerning putting nails in trees, never done it (except 2 tacks affixing a FS yellow vicinity plaque head high);?ÿ but have blazed and scribed?ÿ several hundred+ witness trees over the years.?ÿ It actually takes some skill to do it fast and legibly.?ÿ BTW, don't paint it with fungicide, better is to let the tree naturally heal so it forms a characteristic bark overgrowth pattern over the decades the name of which I cannot mention on the InterWeb.
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Having done Forest Service contracts for 15+ years, aluminum nails only. I keep a large pill bottle full in one of my vest pockets. Plenty enough for a day's worth of marking bearing trees and hanging BT and LSM tags while doing corner ties. On days when we're marking line, I wear a belt and nail pouch.?ÿ
98% of the loggers around Montana know better then to cut down a BT, and if they do they'll leave the stump tall enough to save the scribing.
Very few surveyors will be able to navigate the shifts in state plane going forward. They will simply stake the coordinate given regardless of the method used to establish it.?ÿ
I don't know about licensed surveyors, but field crew are less likely to have any awareness of such things.?ÿ I remember the time I asked a guy who was doing street topo whether the numbers on a stake his company had set near my house were NGVD29 or NAVD88.?ÿ He told me "we do everything in NAD83."
@mightymoe?ÿ ?ÿVery few surveyors even understand what you just said, much less actually reproduce a twenty year old coordinate correctly.
