Odd survey request - at least for me.

I absolutely love it when something like this happens. People who think all we do is wander around aimlessly outdoors with our caps on backwards discover that cerebral acuity goes along with the physical attributes.

Edit: Eschew obfuscation at every opportunity.

"Moo Speak"??:whistle:

Simply tell them you'll start when you have a title report in your hand. We're surveyors, not title searchers.

Not searching for title is a missed opportunity to expand your business. Ever heard of a title school?

> Not searching for title is a missed opportunity to expand your business. Ever heard of a title school?

Not sure what your point is. Do you want to guarantee title?

Don

I always review and often perform chain of title searches for my own jobs as well as when working for a title company. Most title officers have only in house training in title search, most have had no formal training title work. Working up a chain of title and plotting it out in a graphic form can be a product in demand to many.

Agree that we need to train ourselves to better at it than the title company employees. They do not dig deep enough in many cases based on some standard number of years for certain concerns. They do not look at adjoining properties. They are merely doing a job while we practice a profession. If they miss something, the company eats the expense. If we miss something, we may lose more than we can ever make back.

> I always review and often perform chain of title searches for my own jobs as well as when working for a title company. Most title officers have only in house training in title search, most have had no formal training title work. Working up a chain of title and plotting it out in a graphic form can be a product in demand to many.

But worthless if you can't guarantee it. Sounds like you need to be working with a better title company.

Don

No. I'm simply not interested. As a solo operator, I'd rather be in the field or drafting. That's what I do best.

Target

Do you get a certificate of title for every piece you survey?

I am sure Jon is going to check the title, if nothing more than out of pure interest, and he knows that final title certification will come from a land title attorney. He knows in advance that the land title attorney will be calling him to plot deeds, etc.

Good question. No, I don't. Lot/block surveys and other "simple" requests I do my own research. If I suspect a problem (as in the original post) or complicated, I request a title report. More often than not, a recent report is available.

Mr. Locked

It makes sense that each of us have certain things we would prefer to do. We all have things we would really prefer to not do at all. In my case, as the one who is signing off on the final product, I do not feel at all comfortable doing a job without doing a pretty decent title review. Sure, I get some of those easy ones that are merely a single lot in a common block of your typical subdivision where that lot has been a unique tract since day one. It is much more common, for me, to do jobs where there is SOMETHING a bit peculiar involved.

One example: The tract is described as being the south 50 feet of several lots that run north-south in a common old town block. The buyer has stepped off from fence to fence and can only come up with about 40 feet. The description dates back more than 50 years. The adjoiner to the north has a deed saying he has the north 60 feet of the same lots. Problem is that the lots are only 100 feet north-south. I could not go out there and stake the deed without looking like a no-nothing, idiot. Both property owners had title insurance based on the historical descriptions.

Another example: Somewhere over time someone has altered the description from how it was first written. In one case the current deed read that it was the northwest quarter of the northwest quarter of Section 18. You might assume that means the same thing as the original Government Lot 1. Not is this example. It turned out that the original split occurred after the same person owned Lot 1 and the northeast quarter of the northwest quarter. The original deed said: The west 40 acres of the north half of the northwest quarter. Said north half consisted of nearly 90 acres. Fences and all evidence agreed with a line matching precisely 40 acres. Quite simply, someone down through the years had assumed that the phrase, "the west 40 acres" was identical with "the northwest quarter of the northwest quarter". That could have been screwed up just as simply by assuming it was the same as "Lot 1", which, in fact, had nearly 50 acres instead of the record 40 acres.

Mr. Locked

You're right, we all have our comfort zone. 90 percent of my work is in my home county, so I have a pretty good idea of what constitutes "comfort".

Back to the original post: He indicated I'll have to go back through the records and try to find where it was last recorded and what transpired from that point forward

That's where I would rather leave the search to the title folks.

By no means am I implying that I'm a deed staker. :'(

Have you ever had a title report

perform research back to junior-senior rights? We have to do that for every survey we undertake. If one side of our tract calls for a patent line, we gotta go find the patent line (the one staked in 1824) in downtown Houston. Needless to say, one hardly ever finds even a reasonable facsimile of a perpetuated point, but we gotta walk that extra mile.
We are also responsible for "such research of adequate thoroughness to support the determination of the location of the boundaries of the land being surveyed." I trust only a few humans to give me that level of thoroughness.

Whether I have a title report or not, I always do my own search. My search is not for ownership primarily, but for confirming descriptions of the subject and adjoiners and finding and correcting latent ambiguities there and noting all called for monuments, if any. I do a surveyor's report for myself. Quite a different animal than any title report.

If I do have a title report, half the time I must inform of their errors and ommissions. I will never rely on a title report on it's face. The only insurance I am interested in is covering MY arse.

I agree. Searching title is a very interesting task.

I'm not necessarily trying to make a complete chain of title but I am trying to find out what I can about the property. I have found things that the title company missed just by taking the time to look.

Maybe I'm crazy but I think scouring the indexes and finding things the county staff don't know they have is fun.

T.P. and Frank are 100% correct. If you rely solely on a title company for correct title descriptions, then you're not doing your due diligence. I can't express enough the number of times I have discovered gross errors in the title descriptions and list of exceptions in title reports
And attorneys, title officers and clients knowledgable in land transactions (i.e., usually the ones with money) will seek the services of a surveyor proved in correctly identifying the true location of a boundary. It is part of the boundary surveyor's job whether you want to market it or not.

> > I always review and often perform chain of title searches for my own jobs as well as when working for a title company. Most title officers have only in house training in title search, most have had no formal training title work. Working up a chain of title and plotting it out in a graphic form can be a product in demand to many.
>
> But worthless if you can't guarantee it. Sounds like you need to be working with a better title company.
>
> Don

Don,

Believe me, Frank knows what he's talking about. He is highly sought for his expert services.

A good title searcher provides is a assessment of title as to its insurability and whether it is at low risk, or identification of issues which put the title at risk and guidance to resolution. The surveyor who is an expert title researcher not only provides surveys which are defendable in a court dispute, he or she usually becomes recognized as a resource for title research by title officers, attorneys and many others in the business of dealing with land.

A good title researcher may not provide insurance, instead the expert researcher provides ENsurance for those who insure, defend and rely on property descriptions.