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Note to self regarding ALTA's

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UT Veyor
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Never, Ever, sign a fixed fee NTE agreement for an ALTA/ACSM survey knowing that the Lender, Seller, Buyer are going to have their legal teams (all 3) review the currently issued title commitment, and survey plat! Wait until all parties agree to a commitment, and schedule B items, prior to survey.

Should have known better when we submitted our plat for review to the title company, and they asked if we have been receiving the Proforma commitment, and adjusted Proforma commitments. What a joke!

Fortunately (we'll see), our contract is for the ALTA on the first delivered commitment and attached to the contract. I will be hitting up our accounting department to see what our work in progress is, and making a friendly call to the client. Talk about cart before the horse.


 
Posted : August 16, 2013 2:40 pm
ppm
 ppm
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NTE fee (Fixed is always better) for ALTA Survey that meets minimum requirements and Table A options, (almost always after I see the title report). Any additional comments from buyer, title, lender or council that is beyond the minimum requirements and agreed Table A items will be billed at hourly rate.

Never had a client tell me that they disagree with this.


 
Posted : August 16, 2013 8:04 pm
Larry P
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Dude,

Never sign a NTE agreement on ANY job. EVER.

An NTE gives you all the risk if things go badly and the client all the reward if things go well. Reasonable clients won't ask for an NTE. Unreasonable clients need to be someone else's clients.

Just my 2cents worth.

Larry P


 
Posted : August 16, 2013 8:39 pm
brad-ott
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I feel your pain. Here is our standard contract wording:

Upon our receipt of this fully executed agreement we will provide an ALTA/ACSM Land Title Survey including Table A items 1-5, 6, 7b1, 8-11a, 13, 14 and 16 for the above referenced project for a lump-sum fee of $ -----. We anticipate completing the survey within x to y weeks from receipt of written notice to proceed.

We have assumed that you will order and provide a title commitment along with the necessary easement & exception documents. This survey will comply with the requirements and certificate wording provided by the American Land Title Association & the American Congress on Surveying and Mapping (ALTA/ACSM) ~ (i.e. no lender specific requirements or certificates).

Any additional services required after we deliver the survey as a result of comments from you, your lender, your buyer, your seller, any attorney, engineer, or otherwise (“attorney comments”) will be invoiced on an hourly basis at our current hourly rates.


 
Posted : August 17, 2013 6:34 pm
cptdent
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Two quick points:
(1) You need to update your contract verbiage. ACSM is no more.
(2) The "exception items". Can anyone tell me where in the specs it says I have to list them and the effects on the subject parcel on my plat? I show the ones that I can depict graphically on my plat, but I'll be darned if I am going to make any judgment on the idea if they hinder or benefit the property. That's a lawyer's call. Even though he whines about my prices, he makes a lot more per hour than me and danged if I am going to do his job for him.
If you try to go to the ACSM web site, you end up on the NSPS website. As far as I have heard, NSPS hasn't fully signed off on all of the ALTA items yet. In our area the number of requests for ALTA surveys are WAU+Y down. Seems state standards are good enough now.


 
Posted : August 17, 2013 7:52 pm

jhframe
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> Never sign a NTE agreement on ANY job. EVER.

It depends on what's meant by NTE. Unless the contract contains specific provisions pertaining to hourly charges at specified rates, I don't see what the fuss is about. I routinely sign contracts for a fee not to exceed a specified amount. If my internal charge accounting comes in over that amount, I eat the difference. If it comes in over, I get the extra profit. Either way, the client pays the same amount.

P.S. This version of NTE is equivalent to lump sum.


 
Posted : August 18, 2013 9:21 pm
Tom Adams
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> (1) You need to update your contract verbiage. ACSM is no more.

Wouldn't it still be ALTA/ACSM standards until such a time that it is rewritten in conjunction with ALTA and NSPS?


 
Posted : August 19, 2013 2:46 pm
cptdent
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The reference to a non-existent entity is irrelevant. They could just call it "ALTA Specs" and be just fine.


 
Posted : August 19, 2013 4:13 pm