Clearcut
Can you post the plat here?
Keith
Keith
Not right yet. All I have is the full size paper copy. I'll see if I can get you a scan a little later.
Unfortunately, California BLM has not yet digitized their records like other regions.
Just asking, us Tennessee boys have little idea what the BLM is doing in California, Alaska and other places. Not too much BLM work in this part of the country. From a lot of the articles you see and comments you read, it would appear they are just out there surveying sections off in wooded, desert, and frozen land for no particular reason. I would suppose a lot of this is for timber cutting or mineral rights as noted above.
There is a reason, you can be sure of that.
It could be timber sales, or minerals or whatever reason some unit needs to know where the boundary is located.
really now?
I did not give a detailed list as to why the need might arise, but I was under the impression that part of what the BLM does is maintain federal boundaries. Certainly, they are not engaged in make work and there ARE specific requests made of the BLM to prompt them to perform a survey.
It seems like the Special Instructions are what we need to see to resolve this - they might have instructed the surveyor not to monument 1/4 corners for some specific reason, perhaps monetary... In Arizona, I have observed the opposite - monumentation of all corners involved seems to be the norm here - far beyond the standard practice of most private surveyors.
Some input
I was also in CA BLM at the time much of this work was done, and have even been on the project several times.
I do recall that a decision was made to not set 1/4 corners. While I was not privy to the direct discussions (Skip Robinson was the chief at the time), I do remember discussions of it around the office.
I am relatively sure that the primary reason was cost. It was at the request of the funding agency the USFS. Much of this project area was extremely remote and difficult to access. A lot access was via helicopter also. I would bet that all corner locations were searched but over the entire project there were very very few corners found. The kind of thing, not rare in parts of Northern CA where you can never be sure where to search because of the distance to nearest found corners and 10 chain or more radius search areas.
I can also state like Doug that the decision to not set those corners was unique to that project as far as I know. We certainly set them on other projects before and since. This was one big project funded and surveyed over several years and I suspect that it was one major reason the so called Redding field office was established.
I remember arguing with the project surveyor about the idea, but like a lot of things there isn't necessarily specfic guidance in the Manual on such issues. I did point out the statement somewhere in the Manual that there should be monumentation every 40 chains which is probably in reference to metes and bounds boundaries such as grants.
About 5 or so years later BLM went through the 're-engineering" fad and during that exercise there was at least one USFS Regional Surveyor who also wanted to eliminate 1/4 corners. Again from the point of view of cost. Of course we tried to point out that this was short sighted. USFS often finds a need to mark and post their lines and the larger interval between controlling corners makes this much more difficult. So a 1000 cost savings at one point could add up to a lot more later.
As the the question of BT's that is another issue I don't have any idea about. It is not uncommon for there to be policy to avoid marking trees on private lands though and there have been other discussions on that score.
- jl wahl
PS: as to reasons. BLM surveys are always done by specific request of usually another Federal agency. Knowing where Boundaries are is essential to management of resources and the lands whether it is for timber cuts, to avoid trespass by urban enccroachments or a host of other issues. While some agencies do perform and sometimes contract boundary surveys, if there is a difficult boundary situation such as large scale distortions or possible litigation, BLM is often called upon to do the work.
Seems As If JLWAHL.............
...............has provided at least a partial answer to the question down near the bottom of the thread.
You forgot to mention an important one ENVIRONMENTAL. I'm sure many surveys are performed so they will know which areas they can restrict access and useage. You cannot close down the public lands (in the name of the godess, Mother Earth) without knowning where the public lands lie. JRL
Clearcut....or whoever you are.
I don't need your scan, just put it on here where all can see it.
You published your accusations here, so show your proof.
Keith
Clearcut....or whoever you are.
This is BS!
"I am aware of at least 4 or 5 entire townships that were re-surveyed by the BLM in recent history with no 1/4 corners set. Well over 100 sections, closer to 200 sections."
Keith
Keith
I don't know what Clearcut, whoever he is's, motivation would be to make this up. Did you read Jerry Wahl's post from about 6 hours ago? He worked at CA BLM when this happened. The reason seems to be that it was really, really hard to set all the 1/4 corners and nobody really cared where they were so the party paying for it said not to do it. It sound very plausible to me, not necessarily BS as you assert.
Oh, and the scan problem is that he can't post it in its current state because it's a piece of paper at this time that doesn't shove into a computer that well. I too am looking forward to seeing the plat where the BLM set only the Section corners on a resurvey. So far, I believe it happened.
Keith
I listed the townships that you say bs to. Jerry confirmed this occured, he was there.
I tried scanning an example and posting them as a .pdf, but did not work for me. I was going to try again tonight, but your attitude blows.
They're public record. Go look them up. You know how. I'm done arguing with an apparently irrational person.
What I quoted above is
BS
Keith
Steve
it is tough ground, but it wasn't that hard to set the 1/4 corners since the 1/4 positions were surveyed to and temps set for those 1990s townships Jerry and I are referring to. Would have been pennies on the dollar to set the monuments, being as the temps were already set. My concern was if this practice was to continue, the diligence of searches might lessen as the effort to locate the positions will be less if temps are no longer set.
If nothing else comes out of these threads, I'm glad to learn it isn't a practice elsewhere, and doesn't appear to be gaining any steam.
Keith
4 or 5 townships plus others I'm not personally aware of, 36 sections per township.
close to a couple a hundred sections. Much of the area on the Pit River and Squaw Creek drainages of Shasta Lake.
Pull the plats, I listed them. I told you the area to look. Call it BS all you want, the proof is there for all to see.
Then show us
Should be a simple matter for you to show an example?
Keith
