NCEES Announcement

That's BS in my opinion.

Are the other NCEES exams going to closed books as well? What about the PE exams?

The next thing will be that they issue you one of their own calculators.

But, I Need My Log Tables

Darn!

Paul in PA

good thing i've already made it through that. what is the resoning? or do they have access to the books through iphones (or similar) or tablets? i have 1/2 of the books i took into my test sitting on my desk, although "Blacks" is the one i use most...

yes, spelling is not great at 7 am

Good Idea vs Bad Idea

Good idea to restrict the resources so that test takers are happier with "A,B,C,D,all/none of the above" questions. Makes the transition to computer testing easier. Makes the test creation process easier. All of which are test giver solutions.

Bad idea in that the there is no way to cover the breadth of required material in the supplied resources. Can they get the right to somehow provide you with the information in Black's without providing you Black's. That along with other expert resources that should be used indicate they did not ask the applicable professionals.

In all the years I have been an "NCEES volunteer"? they have never asked an opinion. Back when I when I wrote regarding the restricted calculator policy I never got a proper response. I did get an invite to take the new FS computer test, but was never asked if it should be a computer test in the first place.

In my professional opinion this is another step in the process of dumbing down education.

In surveying the survey cannot be the result of "A,B,C,D,all/none of the above".

Paul in PA

It would be interesting to see how much the test material
changes with this decision by NCEES. I tested last year. I
used textbooks to help out on about 5 questions. Didn't
have a lot of time to flip through much reference material.

One of the measures of a professional is not what he or she is able to recall off the top of their head, but knowing where and how to find the best answers to the questions presented to them.

IMO, this is a stupid direction for the NCEES to go. It is not in the best interest of the profession, and certainly not in the best interest of protection of the public by ensuring that only those with a professional level of knowledge become licensed. It does not consider the actual role or qualification of the licensed professional, but is being done almost exclusively in consideration of costs.

An exam administered and graded by computer is cheaper than one administered and graded by a team of real live people.

An exam that offers a list of possible answers, only one of which is correct by the grading plan is not only easier to administer, but is more "defensible" than one in which the candidate actually has to fully assess a presented situation, and not only provide answers to the questions posed, but demonstrate sound reasoning by explaining it. It is too subjective, just like real practice, and open to challenge by the exam failures, thereby making the exam too expensive to defend.

By not allowing materials in, far fewer procters will be needed to keep an eye on things to ensure that no one is snapping pictures of the screen or downloading exam content to a flash drive.

But then, the materials that examinees are bringing in are not on electronic reading devices and flash drives, they are printed and bound materials.

Bad, bad, bad. The NCEES and the states following along are moving us to be a math based technical trade.

I agree with you Evan.

browja50

Rabbit trail here...

> I tested last year.

and you have a number in the 4000's? Not too many surveyors in WV history? My number, which I received this year, and includes all engineers, is 49284. (WA)

And back to the issue...

As long as the surveyors on the board can pass it, I think they should make the test whatever they want.

The reality is, that they will then change the test to get the passing percentages that they want. So, the test will be at its very core a different kind of test. For me, that type of test would be an advantage, since I do well with recall, but for others...

Truth is, all state portions should include oral examinations, a place where you cannot hide, but the cost is too great, supposedly.

Everyone that disagrees with what the NCEES is doing should volunteer to advise them on policies, I believe they are currently asking for people to review and advise them on their policies.
I personally don't believe ANY survey exam should be closed book, that's part of what we do is to research the correct answer.
I don't believe any survey test or license should require a college degree, if you have put in the time and can pass the exam, you should be allowed to get a license.
I don't believe they should dictate what kind of calculator you can or cannot use for the exam, if you become licensed and are gonna use an HP 11C or 41CX or Casio, if that is what you are going to use in practice then that's what you should use in the exam.
And in conclusion, I'm glad I passed ALL of my NCEES stuff >10 years ago and only have to worry about state specific exams now and probably not going after many more (if any) of them. 🙂

The United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE) and the Multistate Bar Examination (MBE) are not open book.