It's an interesting section line, original survey, then a military survey, sits for 103 years from the original and about 85 years from the military, then the Section lands in Section 14 get a patent.
So a section minus the S2SE4 (already was patented before the military survey) gets a patent thirty years ago.
We are tasked with doing a retracement.
The military set the N1/16 and the S1/16 along the east line, also the NW, W1/4, S1/4 and SW section corners, they also set the NW of the first patent (CS1/16).
After the patent, the east and north lines get a new fence, no one knows who "surveyed" it or how it was built, no corner records, no records of any kind, just a loose rebar at a fence corner. Someone did it, but who, asked everyone we can think of, no one remembers it.
The east line looks like this now:
It really puts a kink in the section line from the north MM (N1/16) to the section corner, but what can you do now:-(
When I was but a wee tad PC just after high school I did a survey in the pine barrens. We had done the boundary and in the course of doing topo sections with the level found an 8 inch square monument with a brass nail in the center with a raised star.
We were lucky to have a level that had an external circle divided in degrees so got a rough angle and stadia to it.
Killed that job dead as I remember.
Thoughts and questions;
I'm assuming this is a normal section, no lotting or GLO non PLSS surveys.
Read the Military deed. Maybe its not an Aliquant part description. The 1/16's are out of position by more than normal survey accuracy of the time.
Do you have the Military survey to know what control was used to establish the 1/16's?
I assume the SET STONES are original. The B and D looks good between the fd. stones.
Is the SE S14 iron pipe a remonumentation of the original?
I would make sure the E 1/4 is lost. The Military survey is only 18 years after the Original. They had the best chance of finding it.
Wave a metal detector around every corner. No telling what will turn up.
The fence corner;
From the drawing, 2633.09/2= 1316.54, 1316.54-1369.49= 52.94 south of Stone. And its SW of the Stone. Does the FC line up with the bearing from the SE cor. threw the N 1/16? Maybe thats where the rebar came from?
I don't know where you are. But if you are in a state that has a late recording date I would ask around for any unrecorded surveys. In Washington you better visit every surveyor in the area because they have unrecorded surveys or know who has unrecorded surveys. I am not bad mouthing surveys that are not recorded, in my opinion they are just as legal as recorded surveys.
Be able to defend every corner because they turn into your corners when you accept them.
Do the research, line up your ducks, answer every question, defend your corners.
My 2 cents worth
Good Luck
Yes, the fence corner is some kind of attempt to line up the military mons....
It's not exactly on line, it's 1324' north of the military mon.
The SE section corner is probably a cut off military monument, there are a number of them out there, one I had located as a brass cap on a pipe, 2 feet above ground, then went back years later and it was a 4" pipe just barely above ground, who did that, no one seems to know.
the monuments are usually about knee high, big things, can't miss them brass caps on 4" iron pipes.
The guy who surveyed the military monuments was a lieutenant engineer, he set lots of them, they look similar to forest service boundary markers of the same vintage.......
Clearly he wasn't a GLO surveyor,,,,,,,,,
A stone was recovered near the east 1/4 corner, no visible markings. There was a recent fire and a fire break and some suppression attempts were made and it might have been disturbed by that, no way of knowing its location if it was set but it's about 10' from an extension of the SE corner and the S1/16.
The 1/4 and Section corner heading to the north were also recovered, they are N0-08W 2668, then N0-17E 2640,,,,,,,pretty typical for stones in this part of the country.
This survey has no adverse possession, acquiescence type issues,,,,,,,,Except do you hold the old monuments over lining up the found stone at the NE corner and the SE corner pipe or something like that, the fence really has no legal standing for this survey, if it's off it isn't establishing anything.
Here's my second go.
First off, if this an active military base get the ok from the base commander or who every they send you to. If it's inactive contact the nearest base. I did a job on a small base and the military was very helpful, informed civilian personnel, any "stay out of areas", had all the military surveys, and the biggest help was the commanders business card that cut through a lot of explaining to military personnel.
On the same base I found many ip's driven alongside rotted wood post. No idea where they came from but I was thankful to that person.
Have you found any original evidence, GLO, at the military mons.? Not to bad mouth the Lieutenant's ability but has he every seen an original monument. I followed a Lieutenant Daniel Majors that surveyed the Oregon Washington state boundary. The boundary was a latitudinal arc, he did a very good job of that but couldn't measure worth a darn.
It appears the original surveyor did a good job. If there is no original evidence at the IP at the SE S14, I would give a very hard look for the original SE S14 at the original B and D from the NE S14.
I hope you have the Military Survey and the deed.
Run this by BLM Cadastral Survey office that covers your area. You will get a fresh set of eyes and surveyors that have many years of experience with these questions. Any time you survey against a Federal boundary it is wise to include those that have Federal authority to determine Federal Land Boundarys.
I agree with you on the fence, so that something you can put aside.
Agin GOOD LUCK
johnbo, post: 349788, member: 8695 wrote: Here's my second go.
First off, if this an active military base get the ok from the base commander or who every they send you to. If it's inactive contact the nearest base. I did a job on a small base and the military was very helpful, informed civilian personnel, any "stay out of areas", had all the military surveys, and the biggest help was the commanders business card that cut through a lot of explaining to military personnel.
On the same base I found many ip's driven alongside rotted wood post. No idea where they came from but I was thankful to that person.Have you found any original evidence, GLO, at the military mons.? Not to bad mouth the Lieutenant's ability but has he every seen an original monument. I followed a Lieutenant Daniel Majors that surveyed the Oregon Washington state boundary. The boundary was a latitudinal arc, he did a very good job of that but couldn't measure worth a darn.
It appears the original surveyor did a good job. If there is no original evidence at the IP at the SE S14, I would give a very hard look for the original SE S14 at the original B and D from the NE S14.
I hope you have the Military Survey and the deed.
Run this by BLM Cadastral Survey office that covers your area. You will get a fresh set of eyes and surveyors that have many years of experience with these questions. Any time you survey against a Federal boundary it is wise to include those that have Federal authority to determine Federal Land Boundarys.
I agree with you on the fence, so that something you can put aside.
Agin GOOD LUCK
We have had an ongoing request to have the monuments looked at by the BLM,,,,,,,,,,going on about 25 years now,,,,,,,,,,
We are talking to the Military people, they are involved with the project
We do have the survey info for the old monument survey such as it is,,,,,,,
Basically it's up to us to decide, the equipment will be in there shortly.
But i hear what you are saying.
More ramblings
Lets look at arguments for accepting the military mons.
1. They have been in the ground 85 years.
2. The military did the survey.
3. Military, 18 years after the original. Had the best chance of finding evidence of the original survey.
4. Used by someone to establish a fence cor. Even used wrongly.
5. Nobody has argued with the military mons. for 85 years.
6. Couldn't get the official federal governments boundary experts (BLM) involved. Make sure you have something in writing from them. So you had to make the call.
Not accepting the military mons.
1. Work is out of limits for the time. weak
2. Just because they are the Military, do they have authority to determine boundaries.
3. From the Military survey plat the survey is patently wrong. Did not follow the deed or the rules of survey.
Must be more
You accept the Military mons., what can go wrong.
Somebody finds original monuments and assuming they are roughly rec. from NE14, (A side light, which corners control?)
they would fall west of the Military mons.
If the original corners control.
Land Owners in sec. 13 probably will not complain, they are getting more land.
Land Owners in sec. 14, you have problems.
With all that, make SURE there is no evidence of the E 1/4 and the SE cor. of sec. 14. If there is no evidence I would lean towards the Military mon.
But don't let the dirt diggers rush you.
What if your surgeon didn't have time to look at your xrays.
What if your attorney didn't have time to study your case.
What if your engineer didn't have time to do the math.
GOOD LUCK and MERRY CHRISTMAS
Go here and read 28 U.S. Code å¤ 2409a - Real property quiet title actions
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/2409a
Your survey may be correct but becasue the military has been in possession for 12+ years it is a moot point.