Looking for ideas for a tough interveiw question

I'd say ask for 16-17, but go no lower than 15.

Another thing is to try to be the guy who brings up the issue of pay, but don't bring it up too early.

Also, a decent benefits package can help make up for lower starting pay. Find out if there is a performance based review schedule, then once you have the job hold them to the schedule and make sure you get your review. The review is the typical time to ask for a raise.

Hope this helps.

"Millions" would be good for a laugh.

Then be serious and say it would depend on the benefits offered.
Ask about health care, dental, vision,401k........
You can probably find out an average for your area from a LOCAL professional organization. Adjust according to how bad you need a job.

I would want no less than 15 an hour even with benefits, yet I would expect to receive around 2 dollars an hour less for the first six months with a new company until they are sure I will work out the way they expect. Bnefits usually do not kick in until after that anyway. That would be a big bump in pay and benefits after six months. Be sure to ask about that schedule.

If you don't mind relocating, Freeport McMoran is looking for surveyors starting at 17 an hr, full benifits package and 401K first day. Some sites have reduced rent company housing.

How much does a Bachelor's degree cost? Seems hardly worth the 16 to 17/hour potential.

I took out 22k in loans. All I got is degree and a LSIT certificate.

Thanks for all the comments. The job situation is tough looking for work with limited experience. I am still optimistic in trying to secure a job anywhere.

Caltrans starts Land Surveyors at $26/hour plus fringes and retirement. That is the absolute bottom end of Range A, they may start you higher than that.

There is a hiring freeze but that doesn't mean you can't get hired. Some agencies are able to get exemptions.

http://www.jobs.ca.gov/CASPB/sup/BulPreview.asp?R1=014499&R2=00103029&R3=4TR40M

Yeah, things are tough right now. You may just have to grab whatever you can find.

I absolutely hate questions like that. It basically is reducing you to a number instead of a valuable resource to the company.

I would suggest countering with a comment that you would like to know more about the full benefits package, including sick pay and vacation scheduling and other items that can affect what the hourly rate is really worth to you and your family.

You might even turn that around on them and ask how they bill out your time and what is that rate to the client. Don't appear to be insulting. Focus on what you are worth to them as a billable employee.

> I took out 22k in loans. All I got is degree and a LSIT certificate.

What, no t-shirt as well.

It's a hard question to answer on a national level. I saw an online advertisement a few months back for a licensed surveyor in the Kansas City area that advertised an hourly salary less than I pay a part time crew chief I use occasionally.

When you're potential employees are calculating what to pay an employee, they're looking at the rate they think they can bill you at, their business costs, etc and coming up with a number (ok, the decent businessmen are, a lot are just pulling a number out of their azz).

I'd suggest doing the same thing; start with local monthly housing costs, any car or truck loans you have (or might have, don't expect that 74 Vega to run forever), servicing your student loan and monthly expenses and work backwards to get a salary range you need to live on. That will at least give you a baseline method to compare offers in different areas.

> I'd say ask for 16-17, but go no lower than 15.
>
Really?? I made that with a bachelors degree straight out of school in 1995. If you factor in the TVM cost of inflation between 1995 and today, the equivalent in 1995 dollars was $9.25/hr in 1995. However, in 1995, I could buy gasoline for less than $0.95 per gallon, a new car was $16k nicely equipped, and an average existing house was ~$80k where I live...

Despite the tanking of real estate and the economy, an average house is running $160k, gasoline is $3.63/gallon, and a new car nicely equipped is $27k.

A good way to perform a basic wage analysis is compare the potential wages offered to the going rate for rental properties in your area. Can you find a rental property in a reasonably safe neighborhood around this potential job for a grand total of $866 per month? That $866 needs to include all utilities on an annualized basis, recognizing that heating costs are not inexpensive in the northern climates, and cooling costs in summer are not "free" in the south. This expense column should include basic rent, water, electric and propane/natural gas (if applicable), but not Cable TV or Internet.

On 25% the wages offered, can you reasonably purchase all the food you will eat in a month, along with all the other normal necessities like laundry supplies, toilet paper, entertainment (Cable TV and Internet) and clothing? Does this place you found to live for $866 per month include laundry equipment, or a coin laundry?

On the potential wages offered, can you reasonably save 15% of your earnings each month (after taxes)? This "savings" serves two purposes: as a "rainy day fund" to cover things like your employer's medical insurance deductible, your vehicle insurance deductible, as "savings" to some day put as a down payment on a house, and secondly to cover the things government cannot like planning for your retirement, planning for your future medical costs, and other long term goals you may have. Suffice it to say that Social Security and Medicare taxes you will see witheld from your paycheck will not be reliable sources of supplemental income in retirement.

Can you afford to insure your present vehicle, routinely maintain your present vehicle and set aside a little $$$ each month to replace your vehicle in the future on a mere 12% of your proposed income?

Can you afford to pay all your federal, state, local, and vehicle taxes on 15% of the potential wages offered? If you have graduated from college with debts from your tuition expenses, can you afford to save on housing or food/clothing/entertainment expenses listed above to repay your school debt? I don't advocate shorting your "savings" to repay existing debts, since historically "rainy days" tend to occur more frequently than many American's can repay their outstanding debts.

Like running a business, personal finances are an ongoing challenge between income and expenditures on a personal level. I know when I was in college, few courses I took focused on the reality that you cannot survive on an income where your expenses for day to day living vary widely outside the ranges I have provided above. The Real Estate Financial Analysis class I took through the college of business hit on the major points that lenders look for when you are trying to qualify for a mortgage loan, and that is where many of the rough percentages I have listed above come from. NOTE: I haven't included expenses like vacations, weddings and children. It took me quite some time to settle my own budget to where I had money set aside each year for vacations.

As others have pointed out, when a business looks to hire an employee, it has to weigh the billable return it expects to receive against the wages it is willing to pay, and the alternative employees that are out there. Personally, I'd rather hire a recent college graduate LSIT, than a party chief with 5 years experience working for some other mediocre survey company across town. A college grad typically follows direction better, has a better understanding of the capabilities of the equipment I put in their hand, and has a desire to learn more about the profession. The experience I have had with college graduate LSIT's working under me has been nothing but positive, and I have had the opportunity to work with several who have now become licensed surveyors in various states.

Don't be shy about expressing the financial facts for the area you are proposing to be employed in to the HR person. A decent HR person should comprehend the financial analysis I have presented above. If what they are offering in pay would require 45-50% of your income just to put a roof over your head, they're low balling you, and you can counter their low ball offers with facts. "I appreciate your offer of $14.75/hr, but rents around here are $750/month, and college classes cost me over $100 per credit hour for my bachelor's degree." Despite the tanking economy, the cost of college tuition did not decrease while you were in school, and your education justifies a reasonable wage upon completion. Real HR professionals do their homework, are knowledgeable about the benefits their company offers and are able to answer questions about all of that. I married an HR professional, and I have learned many things I did not know when I originally searched for a job straight out of college.

When I don't have a job, I say I'm entirely open on that issue. When I have one, they have to come close to my current cash pay. And I don't care one bit about 'benefits'. Cash is a benefit.

Nice in theory, but real world application cares not a whit for your financial requirements.

Present yourself for what YOU bring to the table to benefit them. Get a foot in the door, be everyone's willing vassal the first year, and if you don't like them, keep looking. As someone who interviews applicants I can tell you I will always give preference to someone who is already employed and looking to do better than I do with the ones that come in with a list of demands.

The above advice is all good in helping you to determine what you can afford to work for before going into the interview, but is of no concern whatsoever to your prospective employer.

If the pay is that low I would focus my search on finding a good mentoring employer where I can obtain valuable skills and knowledge versus just adding to the profit margin of a large corporate firm.

I would rather work for a small nearly solo Land Surveyor for a smaller salary particularly if you have few obligations other than survival and servicing your debt. It will pay off later.

Hear, hear, very good advice.

I personally think the days of the big box surveying/engineering firms are over, too many innovative creative small shops these days with the flexibility to turn on a dime as far as business model.

I think the large firms will still be around but in smaller numbers. A new College Graduate will probably be stuck in a cubicle doing piles of cogo, drafting or staking calculations and possibly groomed for management (e.g. sales) if their personality is right.

Say in Construction I would rather work for P.L. Parsons doing the actual construction staking (even if it means pounding stakes) and be gaining valuable real world experience than feeding coordinates to Union Party Chief/Technicians.

But there is nothing wrong with a survival job that is less than ideal. I look back on some of the jobs I had and I wonder at how I did it but food on the table is first priority.

You might try BLM. They hire seasonal technicians and may still have some openings.
You'd gain some real world PLSS experience and if you are good and like it there's room for advancement (sometimes).
If you can get on a per diem crew your expenses are largely paid for.
DJJ

I think working on a BLM Cadastral crew would be one of the better jobs in Surveying.